<p>So, my scenario is just like what the title says... I'm a UC eligible student and can afford it, but i really want to goto a cal state and my parents don't like that. I mean time and time again, i have tried to present a case saying things like i like the commuter feel, CSU's educate 80% of the social advocacy workers in CALI (source is CSUmentor, and social advocacy is something i really want to do). I've never really liked the UC system, and many of the UC students (to me) don't really have any substance to them. I goto a title 1 school, and the only students who have ever returned to do something for their community were from the CSU system. Just to make sure this wasn't a generalization (which i'm sure it still is after this) i asked some friends and talked to some nonprofits and orgs. and there was really no outreach from UC students... i was wondering if anyone on CC, would mind helping me convince my parents that it really is ok to goto a CSU. Using facts or Concepts, opinions too... i don't really care, i just really want some help! If my parents don't approve of my decision, i don't really know how gratifying it will be in the end (im sure i that i chose the write place to post this, and that you guys understand that), so i thought that the best advice and help would come from the parents forum. Thank you for your time and help, it really is much appreciated!! I don't really have help from anyone else, once again thanks...</p>
<p>if i have any grammar problems or spelling errors, I’m sorry… i didn’t really want to wait to get some guidance and advice</p>
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<p>There may be many good reasons for choosing a CSU over a UC but this isn’t one of them. </p>
<p>It would help us make a case if you tell us which Cal State you hope to attend and what you plan to major in, as the various CSU schools can be very different from each other. Or do you just prefer <em>any</em> CSU at all no matter how lousy over all the UCs no matter how good?</p>
<p>Both systems are good; it depends on what your educational goals are. CSU is known for training professionals, which is what you’re interested in. Here in Sacto, CSUS has well-regarded programs in teaching, business, criminal justice, and computer science.</p>
<p>I think the UC system is better for kids who either aren’t sure what they want to do, or want general knowledge, or are prepping for grad school. But your career goal is well-defined, and I think CSU would be an excellent choice for you.</p>
<p>One suggestion: Rather than telling your parents everything you hate about UC, try selling them on everything good about CSU.</p>
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<p>You have to say things that make sense if you want to convince your parents that CSU is better than a UC. This doesn’t seem belieavable.</p>
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<p>This is a great reason for going to a CSU!</p>
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<p>This comment makes me think that you are protesting too much. Hardly fair to the many UC students that I know.</p>
<p>Actually… being the parent of a CSU grad who kind of fits that “social advocate” mode… I kind of know what you are talking about. My kid was a transfer into CSU, and I do think that he found a student body that was more engaged in social & real life issues there. I know that when he was out of school, before going to the CSU, he also engaged in work with students at both Santa Cruz & Cal, probably doing volunteer recruitment – he absolutely hated the time he was working on Cal & did comment on the student mindset. (He would have been seeing it through the eyes of someone with a nonprofit advocacy going on campus to get students to volunteer). At his CSU he had a half-time job with Americorps, and he was also doing volunteer recruitment – and he mentioned to me once that his biggest problem was that he had more volunteers than spots to put them in. </p>
<p>I used to prefer to hire CSU students to UC students for administrative work in my law office – I just always found the CSU students to be more down-to-earth and reliable, better workers. (I attributed it more to necessity + work experience – most of the CSU students were paying their own way and working their way through college)</p>
<p>So I think its a quality that is hard to really define in words – but there is a difference in student bodies. Maybe what you mean by “commuter” feel is that the students are more a part of the community at large? </p>
<p>It probably depends on the CSU but I do think that it was a good choice for my son. </p>
<p>But if you are a rising senior, I think you should keep your options open and apply to both. In the meantime, focus on what specific programs of study may be open to you. Definitely check out the college system at Santa Cruz— if instead of thinking “UC” you start trying to weigh the pros and cons of Stevenson vs. Kresge vs. Merrill (etc)… you might start to have a very different perspective. Check out Merced as well… you might find a very different vibe at UC’s newest and least popular campus. </p>
<p>Your parents might change their minds when they see the price tag. But you might change yours when you start to get a better sense of the communities that each UC represents – which is why I say that at this point it make sense to keep your options open.</p>
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<p>Pretty much second that. If you are keen on getting a degree that sets you up immediately for a job, CSU is probably the place to go.</p>
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<p>That’s a negative, yet somewhat vague statement. There’s probably vapid people on every college or university campus.</p>
<p>Although there is a difference between CSU and UC’s primarily in practical application of each major, don’t assume that just because “CSU’s educate 80% of the social advocacy workers in CALI”, this will lead you to do the same. First of all which CSU’s? What major? Different CSU’s are better than others for certain majors. Not all are created equal. Statistics may not always tell you the entire truth.</p>
<p>The problem with going off of where you apply or go based on your preferred career path at your age(which i remind you is when you’re still not considered an adult) is that you might change your mind 1 year from now or 4 years from now.</p>
<p>If you’re dead set on your path just tell your parents you rather apply to some UCs(as matches and reaches) and some CSU’s(as backups). there are ways to kill your chances on your application for match or reach UCs, and if your dead set then go ahead and get your way with csu’s.</p>
<p>You’ve explained why you want to go to CSU. Can you tell us why your parents prefer UC? If you really want to convice them, you need to deal with their issues, not yours.</p>
<p>By commuter feel, do you mean, or include, that you would be living at home?</p>
<p>“many of the UC students (to me) don’t really have any substance to them”</p>
<p>COUREUR:</p>
<p>hmm, I’m apologize for that statement… it’s just my parents lack of reasoning has led me from looking in the good of the CSU to the bad in the UC (whether it be true or not).
CSU’s that i have been looking into are CSULA, CSUN, CSULB, SFSU, SDSU, and Cal Poly Pomona… i don’t exactly know what i want my major to be… but something along the lines of history or political science… maybe philosophy… something i could use in social advocacy. </p>
<p>LASMA:</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice… i have tried, your suggestion by the way… actually thats how initially started my “Case for the CSU system”. Didn’t work out so well : ( but i suppose thats because maybe i lacked good evidence, about how a CSU would be better for me.</p>
<p>ELLEMENOPE:</p>
<p>i’ll try and lay off the UC bashing, thanks for keeping me in line…</p>
<p>CALMOM:</p>
<p>THANKS! that was some really useful information!! and i guess i could keep my mind still open for UC’s… but i believe that my problem will be similar to your sons. I have visited some UC’s as well as some CSUs and i just enjoy the feel more… social activism was just so much more vivid on the campus’s of the CSU’s i’ve visited (though this might have to do with timing…) when i went to UC, and spoke to students… all the talked about was how fun “ackerman hall” was… and how great the parties at "isla vista " was. haha… i really didn’t care for all that nonsense… but when i went to CSULA, the students spoke about how they went to sacramento to lobby for dream act and when i went to to san fran i listened to students talk about how they went canvasing for hunger action… it was just so amazing!! and got me so stoked!!</p>
<p>COMRADED:</p>
<p>once again sorry for that comment on the UC students.</p>
<p>LIEK0806:</p>
<p>right, i probably should have looked into that… and i think i am going to… CSUmentor just says that it educates 80 or so percent of the social advocates in cali, but doesn’t actually give the exposition behind it… and if i killed my application, i’d feel guilty for spending my parents money, and i think that they would think i was a complete and utter failure…</p>
<p>QIALAH:</p>
<p>hmm i really hadn’t thought of it like that, but thats a great idea! i’ll get to the exact logic of my parents wanting me to goto a UC over a CSU tonight and get back to you…!</p>
<p>KAYF:</p>
<p>oh no, i would have my own apartment… i like the isolation, but i would also have the option to hang with friends every now n then too… it’s hard to explain…</p>
<p>Unless you’re older, I do not think it is a good idea for a Freshman to live in an apartment. I think the best alternative is a dorm, and if money is at issue, with parents. Possibly your parents have an issue with this. I commend your wanting to be part of and eventually help the community, but my guess is your parents want you to get a solid education first.</p>
<p>If the money angle could be exploited, it could make a good one-two punch with “CSU has my major.”</p>
<p>Based on your comments and generalizations I don’t think you have a good understanding of the two systems and this will make it more difficult to ‘convince your parents’. You have a couple of anecdotal items and have drawn conclusions about the UCs that aren’t accurate. Also, ‘the UCs’ and ‘the CSUs’ in themselves are very broad terms since there’s a lot of variability within the particular system - for example lumping UCSB, UCR, UCM, UCLA, UCSD all in the same bucket. For ‘activism’ I think UCB and UCLA, for example, have their share.</p>
<p>In addition, you don’t really know what you want to major in so your parents might want you to go to the more selective system to keep your options more open.</p>
<p>Further, you state you to be involved in ‘social advocacy’ but yet you want to live in an apartment by yourself because you want ‘isolation’. These don’t seem to go together to me. Regardless of what you think now, try to live in a dorm for at least the first year if you can - especially if you’re interested in on-campus groups of which there are hundreds.</p>
<p>If you want to present an argument to attend a CSU vs. a UC to your parents, get focused and state concrete objective reasons. Some possible examples -
- You want to go to CSU ‘A’ because of its location and specific programs.
- You want a specific program/major that’s offered only at some specific CSUs because “___”.
- You want to save the family or yourself money by living at home and commuting.
- You ‘don’t’ want to go to a specific UC because of its location, doesn’t offer your major, costs too much, etc. </p>
<p>However, before you convince yourself you should only go to a CSU, examine your reasons yourself and make sure you’re being open with yourself.</p>
<p>Just a thought to add. Perhaps it would be wiser for you to consider what schools you are interested in and why vs. which system you are interested in, given that you are eligible for both UC and CSU and finances allow either. In other words, I want to go to …CSLB because or I can see myself at UCSC because… Many of the CSU’s have nothing in common with each other except they are governed by the same board; focus on schools not systems not only to convince your parents but to make a good choice for you.</p>
<p>The two main reasons to pick a school:</p>
<p>1). They have a strong program in your major> Ex : Cal Poly for architecture. My child’s friend chose that over CAL and her parents, I am sure, investigated the situation and found her reasoning to be sound.</p>
<p>2) You love it or really like it there: the philosophy, the feel, the weather, the politics, the size…whatever.</p>
<p>I think if you can articulate just these two reasons well, your parents will listen. But do your research…all CSUs are not created equal.</p>
<p>Some food for thought: UC Davis offers a Community Development major through the College of Agriculture: [HCD:</a> Community and Regional Development](<a href=“http://hcd.ucdavis.edu/crd/index.php]HCD:”>http://hcd.ucdavis.edu/crd/index.php) </p>
<p>Because of the proximity to Sacramento, Davis students do tend to get a little more involved with political activism – its also a very easy commute for internships or volunteer positions with the legislature and various state agencies.</p>
<p>Santa Cruz offers a Community Studies major: [UCSC</a> Discover -The Community Studies Major](<a href=“http://admissions.ucsc.edu/discover/majors/CommunityStudies.cfm]UCSC”>http://admissions.ucsc.edu/discover/majors/CommunityStudies.cfm)</p>
<p>Keep in mind that part of the reason that many CSU students stay politically active is that they have to go to Sacramento every year to lobby against budget cuts, which inevitably lead to faculty being laid off, departments and programs being shut down, & tuition increases. </p>
<p>Finally, I think you are being unrealistic if you think that you will be able to afford your own apartment. Shared housing off campus? Definitely, and its often a lot cheaper than dorm rates. But an apartment to yourself is pretty pricey, and I doubt that your parents are going to want to pay for that if they aren’t comfortable with your college choice. </p>
<p>Are you a high school junior now? How old are you?</p>
<p>Check this out: [UCSC</a> dean says there are no plans eliminate Community Studies major - Topix](<a href=“http://www.topix.com/colleges/uc-santa-cruz/2009/04/ucsc-dean-says-there-are-no-plans-eliminate-community-studies-major]UCSC”>http://www.topix.com/colleges/uc-santa-cruz/2009/04/ucsc-dean-says-there-are-no-plans-eliminate-community-studies-major)</p>
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<p>“Santa Cruz offers a Community Studies major: UCSC Discover -The Community Studies Major”</p>
<p>OP- Try logging on to the various school websites. They usually have a link to each major and where their graduates got jobs last year and how much they are making. If you can get this information from either the department websites or the career centers, you may be able to make a convincing argument to your parents that the CSU graduates end up having the same types of jobs at the same rate of pay as the UC graduates. Also, keep in mind that the UC system was originally designed to educate those who intended to pursue graduate degrees. The CSU’s were designed to educate those who intended on entering the workplace with their four year degree. That is why the UC’s have a slant towards research and academia and why many CSU’s tend to offer practical programs that prepare one for the work place. For example, when I took Communications at a CSU (in the dark ages), I was preparing tri-fold brochures and working with non-profits on press releases and other practical skills. When a friend of mine (recently) was studying Communications at a UC, I asked her what types of practical skills she was learning to facilitate her career in Communications. The answer: None. That’s right, she was studying communications from an academic perspective and the impact that communications have on society as a whole. She had never prepared, or even seen, a brochure or press release or anything that a corporate communications employee would be doing during a normal work day. That’s not necessarily bad, but it explains how the school systems approach education a bit differently. You will get a great education at any UC or CSU you choose. Check out UC Davis… it’s harder to get into that most CSU’s, but it does have a unique personality and the students are very involved in a positive way with social issues. Apply at both: opinions/preferences tend to change between application time in the fall of your senior year and acceptance time in the spring. Good luck.</p>
<p>uhm so the premise for my parents wanting me to goto a UC is that:
-because the endowments are higher at UC’s the education is better…
-all of their friends children goto UC, and it would be an embarrassment if i was capable of attending, and chose not to…
-employers are more likely to offer a job to a UC grad then a CSU grad.
-i will not get the “real college experience” at a CSU
-UC’s have much more tenured faculty, and profs. with PHDs</p>
<p>can someone please help me find flaw in those?</p>
<p>and to answer some questions… i am a junior in high school, and my parents wouldn’t be paying for my apartment… I’ve been working ever since freshman year, it started out as being a bus boy at some local restaurants, but now i have paid internships with some nonprofits as well as my school district headquarters. I can afford an apartment on my own, but that means nothing w/out the support of my parents. And, i have also considered rooming with some friends who are going to CSU for their own personal reasons… as for majors, i was thinking about doing a double in history and social work. Right now i really like SFSU, i like the area and i’m hoping to go visit again (and get a real tour) this summer, with my friends. I also like the idea of lobbying in Sacramento, my mentors in college have told me much about their protesting and demonstrations in Sac. it’s so meaningful to me, and i can’t wait to get my share of civil disobedience and community organizing. </p>
<p>yesterday i heard an interesting quote from an admin at SMC, when she came to present at my school… i asked her what she believed the biggest difference between a UC and a CSU was… she looked at me and smiled… and said the BIGGEST difference between a CSU and UC is one letter… what do you guys think about that?</p>
<p>Once again thanks for the help CC members, i can’t stress that enough! I’m learning alot about myself, through your advice and questions!!</p>