% Immigrant Blacks in US Colleges

Parents Forum
101

<p>According to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education </p>

<p><a href="http://www.jbhe.com/features/45_student_grad_rates.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jbhe.com/features/45_student_grad_rates.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Graduation rates play an important role in measuring the success of affirmative action programs. Many opponents of affirmative action assert, often without even looking at the actual data, that black student graduation rates are damaged by race-sensitive admissions. It is critical to review the statistics to see if this is true. For this reason, in this report we emphasize the graduation rates of black students at the nation's highest-ranked colleges and universities. Almost always these are the institutions that have the strongest commitment to race-sensitive admissions.</p>

<p>Academically selective institutions are almost always strongly committed to affirmative action in admissions, yet at the same time they tend to deliver a high black student graduation rate. Obviously, this undercuts the assertion made by many conservatives that black students admitted to our most prestigious colleges and universities under race-conscious admissions programs are incapable of competing with their white peers and should instead seek admissions at less academically rigorous schools. </p>

<p>Nearly 19 out of every 20 black students who enter the highly competitive academic environment of Harvard, Princeton, Haverford, and Amherst go on to earn their diplomas. Other academically demanding colleges do very well, although not as well as these four. </p>

<p>Sixteen other highly competitive colleges and universities turn in black student graduation rates of 85 percent or more. They are Wellesley College, Williams College, Brown University, Davidson College, Colgate University, Duke University, Northwestern University, Swarthmore College, Wesleyan University, Yale University, Georgetown University, Stanford University, Washington University, Dartmouth College, Columbia University, and the University of Virginia</p>

<p>Many academics and administrators will be surprised to hear that there are a few selective colleges in the United States that report a higher graduation rate for blacks than for whites. Five of the nation's highest-ranked colleges and universities actually have a higher graduation rate for black students than for white students. According to the latest statistics from Mount Holyoke College, Pomona College, Washington University, Wellesley College, and Macalester College, a black student on these campuses is more likely to complete the four-year course of study and receive a diploma than is a white student. JBHE has not been able to identify the reason for this anomaly at these five institutions, which is markedly inconsistent with nationwide statistics. At all of the other highly ranked colleges and universities in our survey, the black graduation rate is below — and usually significantly below — the white graduation rate.</p>

102

<p>Eulenspiegel, the college dropout phenomenon does not have the same impact at the most selective schools than it does at "easier" schools. Graduation rates of URM at selective schools are very close to the the Non-URM's. </p>

<p>The biggest negative factors come from social and economic pressures.</p>

<p>PS Crossposted with Syb. :)</p>

103

<p>What would make the data more interesting would be to check for associations between the family incomes of African-American students attending and the graduation rates for same at their respective schools. Would it be true that high graduation rates are a reflection of higher family income, as it is for white students?</p>

104

<p>The article: Also states</p>

<p>* High dropout rates appear to be primarily caused by inferior K-12 preparation and an absence of a family college tradition, conditions that apply to a very large percentage of today's college-bound African Americans. </p>

<p>*But equally important considerations are family wealth and the availability of financial aid. According to a recent study by Nellie Mae, the largest nonprofit provider of federal and private education loan funds in this country, 69 percent of African Americans who enrolled in college but did not finish said that they left college because of high student loan debt as opposed to 43 percent of white students who cited the same reason. *</p>

<p>Under any circumstance, a college education costs huge amounts of money. Not only are there very large outlays for tuition, books, and travel, *but, even more important, going to college takes a student out of the work force for four or more years. The total bite into family income and wealth can amount to $150,000 or more per student. High and always increasing college costs tend to produce much greater hardships for black families. *</p>

<p>Deep financial pockets enable some schools to provide greater financial aid than others. And this is a major factor in student graduation rates. Well-funded universities such as Princeton, which has the nation's largest endowment per student and probably the nation's most generous financial aid program for low-income students, will undoubtedly claim an advantage in black student retention and, subsequently, in producing high graduation rates. Obviously, the availability of a high level of financial aid shields low-income black students from financial pressures that may force minority students to leave college to fulfill family obligations and financial responsibilities. </p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Yes Mini,</p>

<p>Money is a big factor.</p>

105

<p>On this board, there is vey little discussion of the opportunity cost of foregone wages (whether for family support or for the improved life-style that having an income provides). At the graduate school and professional school level, this is an even bigger factor.</p>

<p>It could also easily be the case that minority students are more sensitive to the question of debt load than others, including children of middle class parents who huff and puff about education being the student's responsibility but may nevertheless come through if necessary.</p>

106

<p>While I agree with the article to an extent (and note that the citation from Nellie Mae is self-serving), it goes beyond loans. Many low-income students have been partial breadwinners for their families. They may be impacted by loans in the future (and these stand as one of the reasons why URMs, even from the prestige schools, are less likely to go on for Ph.D.s, and even to professional schools), but their families are impacted by the lack of income today. Which is why I think Ruth Simmons at Brown got it right - loans weren't the biggest issue (no-loan policies have the greatest impact on upper income (but not top 5%) students), but work-study and summer earnings expectations are. The jury is hence still out on whether Princeton's policy will have as much impact on the attendance and retention of low-income students as it does on higher income ones.</p>

107

<p>Mini,</p>

<p>I remember Candi who got accepted to Yale and chose it (not only because it was a good school but) because they required no housing deposit. Even when she got to school with work study and loans she was constantly concerned with how her family was making out now that she was no longer home and contributing to the family.</p>

<p>Poor students that are having 100% of their need met at many schools are still likely to graduate with large debt as some end up borrowing the EFC, some end up with subsidized stafford and perkins loans as part of their aid package, and still some end up borrowing money to hold them over until their workstudy kicks in because they still have to set up for the beginning of the year books and supplies.</p>

108

<p>Every year that I taught at the Community College of Philadelphia, I had 1 or 2 (and occasionally 3) students who were invited to transfer into Penn. They were as smart or smarter than any of the students I met at Williams or UChicago, but each time it happened, only 1 out of 2 (or 3) could take them up on the full-tuition scholarship. Even with as much help as we could offer, they just couldn't figure out a way to make the home situation work, and for some who did accept, it was very, very iffy indeed.</p>

109

<p>Also, truly poor students often contribute to their families in other ways - transportation, childcare, eldercare, navigating bureaucracies, providing translation/English services - that often act as a barrier to the student going to a residential college. If you have been as much a contributing member of the family as a "child", it may be very hard for the family to go without you. I saw that a lot growing up, in white families as well as black.</p>

110

<p>" Would it be true that high graduation rates are a reflection of higher family income, as it is for white students?"</p>

<p>What I have seen in The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education is that high graduation rates relate strongly to excellent financial aid. Lots of black students are not able to graduate in 4 years because they have to take time off for financial reasons.</p>

111

<p>
[quote]
I saw that a lot growing up, in white families as well as black.

[/quote]
that is the story of my parent's lives. both of them were the only kids to go to college and at the time they were blasted by their families b/c they left them to fend for themselves for a few years. my mom even had to return home b/c things had gotten so bad. so she went to school and worked to support her family. i have no idea how she did it, but then again, she is like the most determined person ever.</p>

112

<p>"What I have seen in The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education is that high graduation rates relate strongly to excellent financial aid."</p>

<p>I knew that - but I'm surprised they haven't explored the "premium differential" that occurs when such schools have higher percentages of AA students requiring little or no financial aid to begin with.</p>

113

<p>" Lots of black students are not able to graduate in 4 years because they have to take time off for financial reasons" -- do you know if this correlation between graduation rates and availability of fianancial support differs between native-born black students and foreign-born black students?</p>

<p>That such a correlation exists stands to reason. Your opening post, however, seems to examine the difference between native-born and foreign-born black students.</p>

<p>I do not know that foreign-born blacks are better off financially than native-born blacks.</p>

114

<p>When it comes to African immigrants, they have a higher proportion of doctorates than any other group of immigrants, and even than the general American population. Consequently, their offspring may not have the severe financial problems facing many other African Americans. </p>

<p>Since the African immigrants and their offspring's gpas and scores also tend to be much stronger than African Americans without the immediate Caribbean/African connection, the African immigrants and their offspring are more likely to get merit aid or to get into the colleges that offer the most generous need-based scholarships.</p>

<p>Even when African immigrants are poor, they tend to get the support of their family and friends, even from as far away as Africa. Their family/friends will give economic support to their education and in return the student will be expected to economically help their family and friends after the student enters their career. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, according to the 2000 U.S. Census, 30.9% of African American children live in poverty. The median household income for African-American households, was $30,439, more than $15,000 below the median household income among non-Hispanic whites. Probably unlike what may be the case with the African immigrants and their offspring, when impoverished African American nonimmigrant students go to college, they probably can not rely on economic support from extended family and friends. </p>

<p>What I saw when I taught at an HBCU was that many such students were providing economic support to their families of origin while also working and taking out loans to pay for their schooling.</p>

115

<p>"The 2000 Census reported that blacks from Africa or the Caribbean who come to the U.S. are making more progress economically than many native-born African Americans, according to a comparison of wages. The typical black immigrant was earning $7,000 a year more than African Americans in the year 2000 when the median household income for black Americans was $33,500 — one of the lowest of any U.S. ethnic group. The median household annual income for African immigrants was $40,300, compared with $52,000 for whites and $64,200 for Asians. In that year, the unemployment rate was 3.9 percent for whites, 4.7 percent for Asians, 5.1 percent for African immigrants and 10.2 percent for black Americans. Black sociologists say African immigrants are doing better than black Americans because many are better educated and have goals that include returning to Africa for nation building. "
<a href="http://www.educationnews.org/community-readings.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.educationnews.org/community-readings.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Reasons for the disparity?
"Ron Walters, a political science professor at the University of Maryland, said the per-capita wage and education levels among Africans and Afro-Caribbeans are higher because so few of them are allowed into the country. </p>

<p>"It reflects the racism in U.S. immigration policy," Walters said. "If they allowed Africans and West Indians to immigrate in the same numbers they allow Vietnamese, their income and educational averages would fall...." </p>

<p>"The numbers clearly reflect selective immigration," said Roderick Harrison, a demographer at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. "Immigration laws are skewed across race and ethnic groups toward highly educated immigrants. </p>

<p>"It takes a certain kind of ambition or risk to say 'I'm going to leave Nigeria or Jamaica and strike out for the United States, leaving behind family roots,' " Harrison said. "You're talking about a particularly elite group of people. This is an old pattern that's just being noticed because the numbers are getting a little higher."
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A63392-2003Mar8&notFound=true%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A63392-2003Mar8&notFound=true&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"In the metropolitan areas where they live in largest numbers, Africans tend to live in neighborhoods with higher median income and education level than African Americans and Afro-Caribbeans.* In these metro areas Afro-Caribbeans tend to live in neighborhoods with a higher percent homeowners than either African Americans or Africans."
<a href="http://mumford1.dyndns.org/cen2000/BlackWhite/BlackDiversityReport/black-diversity01.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mumford1.dyndns.org/cen2000/BlackWhite/BlackDiversityReport/black-diversity01.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

116

<p>for having quite a wealth of information on this interesting topic.</p>

117

<p>@ Northstarmom, Why do African Americans dislike Africans so much?
My parents are Africans and they complain about it.
They are very hardworking (you can't survive in Africa if you aren't) and say that the blacks here hate them for it.</p>

<p>Whether anyone likes it or not African Immigrants here are minorities too and suffer racism just as much or even more (esp. from African Americans). Let's not turn the US into France where black immigrants aren't given any oportunity and left secluded in HLMs (slums) where their talent and potentials are put to waste.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Even when African immigrants are poor, they tend to get the support of their family and friends, even from as far away as Africa. Their family/friends will give economic support to their education and in return the student will be expected to economically help their family and friends after the student enters their career.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>i totally disagree with this statement and many of your previous comments on this issue.</p>

<p>Actually, African Immigrants are the one who give support to family and friends far away in Africa. It's rare that you recieve economic support from a relative or friend in Africa for your education.
The students are usually really bright kids who don't want to waste their future in a nation ruled by corrupt govt. so they come here and work their way sometimes alone facing TONS of hardship before they enter their career. Trust me I know!</p>

<p>Are you African American? </p>

<p>In my opinion, Africans whether rich or poor (most especially the poor ones) place a huge empasis on EDUCATION. my parents for example although they're not well off, their african degrees weren't recognized here so they had to start afresh, talk to me everytime about the importance of education and hardwork.
When i was younger, my mom used to hit me anytime i came home with a "C" on my report card without questions or answers.
I went to a store once and this little kid (about 4 yrs) was rapping. His parents encouraged him and even told me proudly that his son would be a big rapper.
Now, if that was my mom, I would be DEAD meat! (even at 4)
We all have to grow up to become doctors, lawyers and engineers. any career outside the professions isn't encouraged although can sometimes be allowed depending on its nature.lol</p>

<p>Even a poor student, if motivated enough, can achieve his/ her dreams in a land of opportunity like this. that's why there's affirmative action. </p>

<p>If only some African American parents can do this w/ their kids. Be strict and place empasis on EDUCATION.
We're all black and there shouldn't be a division among us.</p>

118

<p>
[quote]

It takes a certain kind of ambition or risk to say 'I'm going to leave Nigeria or Jamaica and strike out for the United States, leaving behind family roots,' " Harrison said. "You're talking about a particularly elite group of people. This is an old pattern that's just being noticed because the numbers are getting a little higher."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is not true at all!!
If you lived in Nigeria or Jamaica and see how it is, EVERYONE WANTS TO GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY!! the only reason people aren't leaving is probably because they can't afford the money or they didn't get their visas.
There's no risk in getting out of the world's 10th corrupt country or so. Everyone wants to leave trust me!!
You're not leaving behind family roots because you'll keep phone calls, your language, culture e.t.c. and even when you're settled, visit once in a while.
It wasn't a risk for irish families to immigrate when there was the potato famine was it?</p>

<p>Even though it's true that the rich families have the edge because they have connections and can afford to leave, it still doesn't make any difference because If you look into it, you'll find out that rich people whether immigrant or native have the edge in elite colleges or any college at all</p>

<p>so, take out affirmative action (the way it's currently set up) and replace it with one that accepts based on economic factors (ie poor black kids get in easier than rich black kids) you'll find out that Immigrant Blacks will still be in the lead!!</p>

119

<p>Ultima, thanks for contributing your first hand experience to this discussion. I think the door of hostility between African immigrants and African Americans often swings both ways. I've been told on more than a few occassions by African immigrants, that they share a general feeling of disgust and overall disrespect for many African Americans because they fail to take advantage of what Africans see as abundant opportunities in this country. They see African Americans as lazy complainers who use racism as an excuse not to succeed, and are dismayed by what they view as a lack of academic ambition. Unfortunately, I believe they are right in many instances. Never in the history of this country have African Americans had more freedom and opportunity, yet there are many who insist that "things are moving backward", and that we are just one step away from losing all the social and legal ground we've now attained. I have to say that I just don't understand this perspective. Without a doubt, there are still deeply entrenched social and economic problems with the AfAm community, whose roots are in our long history of slavery and Jim Crow oppression. And racism and discrimination are still alive and well. However, too many black Americans steadfastly refuse to walk through the doors that HAVE been pried open for us. It always saddens (and yes, enrages) me when people choose to whine instead of take action on their own behalf. How is it that so many AfAms have lost sight of the understanding that education is the most reliable way up and out? How is it that for many, acknowledging the fact that we MUST address certain self-destructive behaviors and attitudes within our own community, is tantamount to denying that racism and discrimination still exist? Until we can stop lambasting people like Dr. Bill Cosby for addressing some of our painful truths, I don't see as many of the problems endemic to the AfAm community are likely to change any time soon.</p>

120

<p>"Dunbar was filled with students who didn't have that much money and who had a variety of other difficulties that in present days would be used as excuses to fail. Still, their teachers (who included people like the first black graduate from Smith) had high expectations that included the students' learning formal grammar. Indeed, one of mom's English teachers was infamous for flunking her entire class each year and making them all go to summer school. That teacher was Miss Cromwell, the first black Smith grad (whose nephew went to Harvard with me, and was the third generation in his family to go to Harvard)."</p>

<p>This quote hit home and reminded me of a study I once read in the journal "The Black Scholar" in, I believe, 1976. The investigators looked at the declining performance of African-American kids that attended integrated schools in, if I recall correctly, San Francisco. What they expected to find was what some have described in this thread, that teachers did not want these kids in their classes and worked to actively discourage them. They expected the kids to feel isolated and angry. In fact, they found quite the opposite. The African-American youngsters loved their predominately white teachers, much more so than did the whites, and further, the teachers went out of their way to be supportive and helpful, yet scores were declining. The clue came from the discrepancy found in the student survey concerning how the students felt about their teachers. The teachers were tougher on the white students. They demanded more and accepted few excuses. The teachers tended to give the black students more breaks and higher grades, and where more apt to be socially supportive and "understanding" of late work etc., which is why they were well liked. When asked about this, the teachers essentially admitted it, but said they felt they needed to be more supportive and give the kids a break because of their backgrounds, etc. Most talked about how much they cared about the kids and wanted them to succeed. Unfortunately, their concern led to the opposite result, which, in turn, occasioned the title of this study: "Racism Without Racists." It has been my observation that this is still a critical problem in many communities (white and black) and lies at the heart of our educational dilemma.</p>