Impact of paid "diversity visit" for ORM

College Search & Selection
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<p>To date, I've attended one fly-out "multicultural" visit program and have confirmed attendance at two more this month. Some were direct invites sent to me (an Asian student); others I have sought out myself and applied to without invitation, and was still accepted. (A different program invited me then turned down my application, but there were other possible factors in that one.) I know that Amherst's program, for instance, has a historical admissions profile thus: 75% of attendees later apply to the college, and 75% of those applicants are accepted. Obviously those numbers include mainly URMs, so it's hard to ascertain the effect for ORMs.</p>

<p>An example: a top-10 LAC is paying over $500 for my plane ticket to visit. Is it safe for me to downgrade this school, selectivity-wise, a half-notch? (Reach->low reach, etc.) A full notch? (Reach->match)</p>

<p>Btw, thus far I've received fee waivers with all of my rejections, so I would recommend anyone who remotely qualifies (some are open to low-income/first-gen as well as minorities) to apply and see.</p>

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<p>I would be hesitant to try to guess the specific impact on selectivity in your situation. It’s going to vary from school to school and you don’t want to over-think yourself into a “reachy” college list.</p>

<p>If you are getting fee waivers, then you could have been assured of some undetermined boost in admissions at many of the top schools two years ago. Has that boost changed with $8 million or $12 million or $16 million budget shortfalls? They say, “no”, but the schools are, in some cases, building caps on percentage of students receiveing aid into their budget planning, so you tell me? When the budget needs balancing, are they going to push quite as hard for high-need students? I don’t think anybody really knows.</p>

<p>Just play it straight up. You’ll sleep better at night while waiting for the acceptance letters.</p>

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<p>^ I should note that these are “merit”/diversity fee waivers. I submitted no financial information; while I do qualify for FA, I’m not low-income enough to receive need-based fee waivers. Nor am I a first-generation student (father’s parents didn’t even finish elementary school, but he has a PHD, which is why I’m here today).</p>

<p>The default position I’m taking is no impact at all on selectivity, but I had been wondering. In any case, the core list has already been built and balanced, so the addition of one reach vs. one match is insignificant. I am conservative in estimating chances.</p>

<p>To recap for the many people unfamiliar with this obscure niche of admissions: Most applications will ask for your ethnicity, reduced/free lunch status, first-generation y/n, PSAT/SAT/ACT scores, HS transcript, and a short essay (or two or three, in one particular case). ECs are generally not asked about; I’m not sure why. But in other ways, it’s a mini-application.</p>

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<p>Keilexandra,
I am curious, on what grounds are you pursuing these visits? What is the “diversity” you are offering the colleges?
I am not familiar with these offers.</p>

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<p>^ I am Asian (Chinese, definitely ORM). That is considered diversity by many LACs that I’m applying to, and apparently by some that are already overrepresented (e.g. Scripps… no idea how I got THAT travel grant).</p>

<p>I’ve received many diversity invites by mail/email directly, as well. Bryn Mawr, Colorado College, Swarthmore, Hamilton, Connecticut College, Colby, Middlebury, Carleton, Oberlin, Reed, Whitman… to name a few off the top of my head.</p>

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<p>keil… Btw, thus far I’ve received fee waivers with all of my rejections, </p>

<p>I don’t understand what you mean…you’ve already received some rejections? I am missing something, right… LOL (It’s late and I’m tired.)</p>

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<p>When I was rejected from the visit programs, the consolation prize was (consistently) a fee waiver. And for the one that I’ve attended thus far as well. They are all application-only (although Carleton doesn’t require anything other than a transcript and $50 toward airfare if you’re accepted).</p>

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<p>Soooo…whats up with this, Keil? I mean you posted 2,600 times on CC and seem involved in the minutiae of college admissions, rankings, selectivity etc. Its all just a jumble of statistics and nonsense in the end. CC members aren’t going to college for you. You are going, you are making that selection and you will be living with your choice. You run the risk of over analyzing and getting way too granular on your choices. Its really just a gut feel.</p>

<p>If you visit 20 schools you will only become confused and then make a selection based on prestige,ranking or “selectivity ratings.” Bad move. </p>

<p>You should make your selections based on factors you and your family decide, which may include weather, geographical location, travel expenses for four years and that “fit” feeling…which is often just a gut reaction after you have made a visit to a college.</p>

<p>If you try and discern is Carleton better than Whitman or Swarthmore or Bates or name a school on your list of 20, its a fool’s errand. People have to cut schools off their list and get down to 10-12, and be focusing on those applications, making PRELIMINARY choices and preferences in their heads…leaving open the possibility that the reach school either may not take them or they would be a poor fit if they got in there. </p>

<p>Its about what you bring to the school and what impact you will have on the school and what the school will do for you: helping you grow and mature and contribute to society as a whole.</p>

<p>Put another way, is a graduate of Swarthmore or Williams or Carleton better than someone who went to Whitman? Of course not. They are only “better” if they are better people from within, not because of the name on their diploma. </p>

<p>Its not easy self selecting and cutting names off of your list. Millions of students are doing that right now and even more millions have already started applying and have completed their visits. You will be the same basic person no matter where you end up. Part of you will change and mature and that happens no matter where you are in school. </p>

<p>Its not about “how many acceptance letters can I collect.” (Many asians my kids know are way too obsessed with prestige and ranking. Why is that?) We all want you to be happy and successful, and beyond that, we simply don’t care that much…</p>

<p>When people ask about my oldest (now a Junior in College), I know instinctively they want the general response…not the detailed minutiae…or perhaps a humorous remark about dorm drama. That is all. If I bored them to tears with the details of every professor, every statistic and every little this or that event…you see where this is going.</p>

<p>Its time for you to make your decisions, as hard as that may be. Yes, its subjective and somewhat capricious. And then you apply and then you wait and see what happens. And move on. </p>

<p>If I was your friend in the real world (instead of just a CC comment), I would wish you the best, but it wouldnt make a difference to me if you were at Rutgers or Delaware or Williams. </p>

<p>Best of luck to you…but I think its time to work on your applications and worry less about the “selectivity” of this or that school.</p>

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<p>That is a good point^.
As a mom, when I read the opening post, I worry about the impact of all this travel on your coursework this semester. I hope that you are keeping up with your classes!</p>

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<p>I overanalyze everything. It’s my way. But in the end, I will go with my gut feeling IN ACCORDANCE with objective fit factors (can I achieve my academic goals here?) and finances (can I afford this?). </p>

<p>I’m not sure where you got “20 schools” from; I have visited 20+ over the course of the past year and a half, but not in-depth visits by any means. Most were on 2 big 2-schools-a-day roadtrips in the summer. My list currently stands at 10, including Carleton and Scripps (after visiting) and another school that I may visit; Middlebury is a wild-card that I really need to visit to judge for myself.</p>

<p>I have never said a word about graduates of higher-ranked schools being “better” than someone who attended a lower-ranked school. Prestige only matters to the outside world, which unfortunately means I must at least consider it. But it’s not a major factor by any means. Whitman is out of consideration because they don’t have a CS major, but I would be SO happy to attend, say, Macalester (I hope–I haven’t visited) because it’s a great fit for me.</p>

<p>My list is already set, and most of my applications are in fact already complete… of 11 projected applications, I have 1, maybe 2 essays left to write. So, let’s just say, I’m bored–and when I’m bored, I tend to turn to analysis. Because after all, I do care about the difference among “Rutgers or Delaware or Williams” FOR ME.</p>

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<p>Fair enough. I was speaking rhetorically for the most part. But it did occur to me you were overanalyzing in too much granular detail…and you might want to check that habit a bit. If you are bored…well that is a common complaint of kids. Adults get bored too and most deal with it by engaging in something positive,helping others, gardening, a favorite charity. (Some unfortunately do negative and destructive things.) </p>

<p>I am glad you are down to 11 schools and ready to get them submitted. My point is that we/people in general/your friends and family will like you for who you are as a person irrespective of where you go to school. I was just reminding you that while the outside world is concerned about prestige, its a lot less concerned than you perhaps think. Two major anchors on CNBC Power Lunch (the most widely watched and respected financial news show on television) are both graduates of CalState Northridge. Not Stanford. Not Berkeley. Not an IVY. Lots of CEO’s and CFO’s went to second and even third tier schools. </p>

<p>We are all human and I freely admit if my kids got into Harvard, they would have gone. (Didnt apply). Picking a college is fun…but can be turned into a nightmare for you and your family if you arent careful. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t even attempt to tell you where to go. I have only offered my sincere advice on the points you raised. </p>

<p>Lastly, if you apply to any reaches (for you) in your applications, be certain to put them in perspective and don’t get all fixated or obsessed with any one school (or two). </p>

<p>Best of luck to you. And let us know where you have finally decided to submit applications and where you want to go all things considered and eventually where you get in.</p>

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<p>^ Thanks for the advice. I intend to stick around on CC at least until May, so I’m sure you’ll hear about what happens if you listen.</p>

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<p>Keil: If I recall your post, you were going to attend the diversity program at Midd. What was your impression?</p>

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<p>^Lots of Asian students; Midd obviously doesn’t consider Asian to be ORM. I found the program refreshing in that panels, etc. were truly diverse, including white students.</p>

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<p>How about Midd generally? Did it make your list? Just curious, since you seem to be interested in many of the same schools my S is looking at, and for some of the same reasons, and we haven’t been able to visit Midd.</p>

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<p>^ I’ll PM you, so as not to derail this thread.</p>