<p>And I'm having a hard time understanding the hysteria and anger and name-calling of those people who are so appalled by the idea of students avoiding the red states. There are certainly valid reasons why students shouldn't immediately cross Rice or Vanderbilt or UNC or Duke off their lists (I purposefully omit the Ohio schools since Ohio may or may not really be a red state), but surely it's possible to list those reasons without ad hominem attacks on kids and their parents.</p>
<p>I guess anything realted to politics is likely to spark. I didn't originally agree with my won son's mandate of a more moderate climate ('cept for a couple of NE schools). I was expecting/wanting him to apply a more "selective" rigor to the application process. What bothers me is the "if you think like "this", you don't deserve to go to a more selective college". C'mon. Are we really saying that kids with the talent to get into top school don't deserve to be there if they apply what we consider to be an odd criterion?</p>
<p>"farawayplaces 1: I may be wrong but I am not convinced there is more or less discrimination in any given place. Is a middle class guy from Boston more or less open to somebody "different" than his counterpart in Omaha, Jacksonville or Cheyenne?"</p>
<p>not necessarily any different for the middle class guy but maybe a lot different for a gay student!! Is there anyone on this board who honestly thinks a gay student is just as well off at Wyoming as Wesleyan? Yes it is great for those middle class straight students at Wyoming to be exposed to some gay students, but friends and family of the gay students are much more concerned about the gay student being safe - physically and emotionally. What gay student will be well served by choosing a college in a state where the majority of the population doesn't think that student deserves the same civil rights as his/her straight peers? farawayplaces makes some excellent points.</p>
<p>Alh, First, let me say that I agree with you that hate crimes - in any form, directed at any victim - are horrifying. But, if you look at the actual FBI figures for WHERE hate crimes occur, then yes, you are less likely to be the victim of a hate crime in Wyoming than you are in Connecticut. </p>
<p>According to the FBI's Hate Crime statistics (<a href="http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#hate%5B/url%5D">http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#hate</a>), the states where the highest number of hate crimes occured in 2002 (last available numbers) were: California (1931 crimes), New York (801 crimes), New Jersey (615 crimes), Massachussetts, (476 crimes), Michigan (479 crimes). Other states where 200 or more hate crimes were reported include Ohio, the District of Columbia, Illinois, Minnesota, Washington State, Virginia, Maryland, Texas, Florida, Tennessee, and Pennsylvania. The states with the lowest number of hate crimes: Arkansas (0), Alabama (2), Missisippi (4), and Wyoming (6). Other states with less than 30 hate crimes: Montana, South Dakota, Alaska, Louisiana, New Mexico, North Dakota. So as you can see, "hate crimes" in general do not follow the "red" or "blue" voting patterns some people might expect, especially if they only rely on stereotypes instead of hard data. Obviously some of these differences are based on population and demographics, but even allowing for those, it is clear that one may be safer from a hate crime in bible thumping Arkansas than in liberal Massachussetts. (and by the way, there are a fair number of gays in Arkansas. I happen to have a close friend who is gay who lives there and loves it).</p>
<p>A few other interesting data points: Racially-motivated hate crimes remain by far the largest type of hate crime in the U.S. - 49.8% of the 8825 hate crimes investigated by the FBI were racially motivated. African Americans are most likely to be the target: 67.5% of racially motivated hate crimes were directed at blacks (!), followed by 20.5% at whites. Religious bias hate crimes are the next largest category - accounting for 18% of hate crimes. 65.9% of religiously-biased hate crimes were directed against Jews. Sexual orientation accounted for 16.6% of hate crimes and ethnicity/national origin 15.2%. Of ethnicity/national origin, 44.7% were directed at hispanics.</p>
<p>Again, another example of why it's important not to stereotype "ALL" of a state without digging for the facts. Just because one horrible, unforgivable anti-gay crime occurred in a state does not mean that it is the hate crime capital of the country.</p>
<p>I thought this might also be of interest to people looking at college locations based on election results - an interactive map that shows a state-by-state break down of religions, including evangelical christians. <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gnoreligion/flash.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gnoreligion/flash.htm</a></p>
<p>If this is important to y'all maybe you should look at the vote by county and not the state........ oops the point has already been made in another post Maybe I should read the thread all the way thru, but this one has a lot of negativity on both sides of the coin <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm</a></p>
<p>alh: you make a good point in that a gay student is likely more comfortable at Wesleyan than Red State U....a larger gay population, greater acceptance,etc..But once the kid leaves Wesleyan and enters the community is there a difference between Conn. and Wyoming? If he/she lives on Maple Street in Nowhereville does the state, region,etc. make a difference? Your neighbor is more interested in whether or not you mow the lawn than who you sleep with.</p>
<p>This is a pretty ridiculous issue and i don't understand why red states are such a huge issue this year. They have gone conservative for years and i believe they will continue to. Although i am rather apolitical and definitely not religious, i feel that this issue was just made up after the election to have something to whine about. If these kids want to exclude a huge portion of the country based on the way they voted and the religion they believe in that is very ignorant, but hopefully it enough won't want to go to North Carolina and i will get into UNC-chapel hill lol. That out of state cap and criteria makes you want to live in North Carolina. Those are my $ .02.</p>
<p>Again, let me reiterate my point that Atlanta is very liberal. Most of Georgia isn't, but Emory is located in the gay capital.</p>
<p>I thought this was worth throwing out there for comment, given the number of CC parents whose daughters have applied to/considered/attend Smith. Also interesting that so many of these young Republican women are history majors</p>
<p>Thanks for publishing this article, Driver. I note that the harassment is coming from students, not the faculty or administration. Indeed, in the three campuses mentioned, the administration is trying to protect the students whose views are in the minority. I've always thought that the greatest factor affecting campus climate as well as the richness of classroom discussions is the composition of the student body rather than the faculty.</p>
<p>No, no the tolerant members of the faculty are too busy fighting their own battles ... as in fighting the promotion of conservative professors:</p>
<p>Why do I have few doubts that similar actions take place in the ivory towers of most institutions? It is still surprising to see it happening at such a loving and lovely place.</p>
<p>PS Please let hear the drumrolls for Marite
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 500
WOW!</p>
<p>Xiggi,
How are you finding CMC on this front? Son is very interested. Describes self as "fiscal conservative, social liberal"...and eager to be at a place where there is discourse which is passionate and informed...</p>
<p>"But once the kid leaves Wesleyan and enters the community is there a difference between Conn. and Wyoming? If he/she lives on Maple Street in Nowhereville does the state, region,etc. make a difference? Your neighbor is more interested in whether or not you mow the lawn than who you sleep with."</p>
<p>Oldman, that does not ring true with me. In "Nowhereville"--small towns--in the West there are no gays: that is, all gays are in the closet. In some cities of the West there are gays, but they still have to be careful. In our 60,000 population city some of the gays who have been out of the closet have had their cars vandalized. There is a PFLAG group, but its membership is secret, and the phone number is only an answering machine. </p>
<p>Some of our racism and homophobia is reflex. We are so isolated, and never forced to rub shoulders with people different from us culturallly or racially. I realized that after a two-week trip in Boston. We visited our son, who is dating a girl of color. We saw a lot of Asians and blacks all around. When we arrived back at our city's airport and were waiting for our luggage, we both commented on how <em>everyone in the airport</em>--passengers, workers, car rental agents, cabdrivers, etc, etc.--was white!</p>
<p>It's apparent that my impressions don't fit with the experience of others...I must admit being a middle aged white male that I may be unaware of the pressures minorities sense. Still I live in the deep South (Birmingham, Al) where racism is supposed to be rampant and I just don't see it.</p>
<p>Roby, the faculty of CMC has the reputation of being more conservative than the typical faculty at most colleges. Despite this, under the leadership of President Gann, the school is veering to the left. When it comes to political views, the student population reflects the distribution of the current US population, with a slight edge for conservatives over liberals. Most students have strong political views, but the conservatives are a lot less vocal than their liberal counterparts. All in all, there is an overall political balance on the 5C campus and everyone is allowed -and expected- to freely express opinions. </p>
<p>I think that a good illustration of the current topics discussed on campus can be found in the agenda of speakers addressing students at the Ath: </p>
<p>As you can see, CMC is a place that seems happy to invite Phil Gramm and Paul Krugman. On the subjects of speakers, Adam Kokesh '06, sergeant, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, "So...How was Iraq?" deserves a special mention. He is the CMC student who volunteered to serve in Iraq. Talk about a sense of duty!</p>
<p>Thanks,Xiggi...hope you are feeling well, BTW.</p>
<p>Xiggi:</p>
<p>Thanks for the drumroll. </p>
<p>I'll repeat what I've said before. There are plenty of battles among faculty. They don't often pit conservatives vs. liberals. They are more likely to pit people with different scholarly agendas, regardless of whom they vote for in national and local elections. For example, in political science departments, the rational choice folks versus everyone else. In sociology departments, the quantitative folks vs. those who espouse a more qualititative approach to sociology; in economics departments, the math-heavy theorists vs. those who would prefer to explain the real world, eg. development economists and area specialists.</p>
<p>Last year, Harvard turned down a proposal by one of its economics professors, Steven Margolin, to offer a liberal alternative to the Core course known as Economics 10 which has been taught for many years by Martin Feldstein. Feldstein has been described as providing the inspiration for GWB's current tax policy.</p>
<p>i know this isn't really relevant to what you guys are discussing, although it does have to do with politics and teacher/student relationships. at my school i am a member of the college democrats - anyway, one day, a professor comes up and says something like, " why aren't you wearing a suit" to the president of the organizaiton, and he was like, i'm a college student.. just here getting out the word. I don't need be in a suit for something like that.. and the guys like, well the republican guy that was here the other day was wearing a suit.. and the president was like well where is he now.. our club has been here every day this month, and will be every day untill the election..we don't need to all be wearing suits every day.. and the professor walked away.. a few days later he came back and Said to me, can i have some of this information, i said sure help yourself to anything you want, and he grabs one of the papers that said some of the things that the democratic party, as a whole, stood for. and he's like thanks, i need to take this piece of garbage and tell my class what a bunch of crap it is. and he walked away. that really had me mad. I don't have a problem with people voting differently - vote for whoever you want - but I dont feel you should be pressing your views off towards your class, and you shouldn't get in peoples faces for believing in what they believe in. if you are going to go against someone with different views, you should at least give them a chance to explai why they believe the way they do believe. not just flame them for not wearing a suit, or for supporting the democrats. i was just sitting there handing out information AND voter registration cards - to everyone who inquired. I believe (i may be wrong) but this is the kind of reason that students are saying they don't want to go to red states - for reasons such as that professor that is up here.. although i haven't been down south during this election, i would assume that such people do exist, in a larger quantity than up here, as the states up here are blue. i'm sure people feel the same way about going to collegs up here. my campus seemed to be mainly democrat, but many college campuses do. but i know at my campus, we dont rag on people for voting republican.</p>