Imperial or UCL?

Hello, I am a student of 2020 with a bit of a dilemma.

I have offers from ICL and UCL, but the catch is that the courses are different, and more ambiguously, the prospects that come with the prestige are different. I’ve asked for transfers to different courses at ICL, but all were rejected saying that id have to apply next year.

I have listed a few personal bullet points for each, any views on which to make my firm and insurance choice would be greatly appreciated. Also, how big is the ‘prestige’ gap between the two unis really?

A-level: Physics, Computer Science, Further math ~ predicted: AAA Math ~ received: A*

ICL - Material science engineering - offer - AAA

  • Better engineering reputation, industry ties, work placement final year, prospects >.
  • Facilities and research equipment are really fancy, works with other top top universities in Asia, america.. etc
  • Job diversity, many paths to go down in the future,
  • Lots of chemistry and lab work, something that I don't know a lot about, (I've been doing mainly math in Highschool, not a genius so that's why didn't take a math course)
  • More of a gamble that I will like the course
  • considered a soft engineering course, seems to not have a lot of math involved, tho not sure, the module descriptions are very vague. more diverse and suited for kids who take math phys chem and bio.
  • as an oxford reject, going to ICL might redeem me.
  • General opinion over the web suggests ICL > UCL, and teachers/friends recommend ICL
  • might regret not going to the more lively/balanced school next door

UCL - Engineering & architecture design - offer - AAA

  • Bartlett school of architecture, ranked no.1 currently for architecture, whatever that means.
  • Applies math to design, sounds pretty cool, but then again don't know for sure
  • though looking at the course modules, not a lot of maths either, more design modules
  • some statistic like 80% of applicants has an A-level in fine arts/design, so that combined with an apparently prestigious architecture school with lots of design modules might be more stressful than ICL. I can draw, but not really ahahha
  • school of Oxbridge rejects apparently
  • the course is still engineering, so industry ties are important, and no work placement in the course.
  • Really low student satisfaction rate, and TEF silver? is that even significant
  • might regret not going to the more prestigious school next door

What do you want to study and what do you want to do when you grow up?

That would matter more than anything else, really.

Only folks who haven’t worked in the real world would focus on prestige/rankings/whether a school has Oxbridge rejects and all that blather more than actual stuff that would impact the direction of your life (like what specific skills and knowledge you would gain).

I agree completely haha haha.
I must say that I have no clue what I want to do, I haven’t experienced the real world and I haven’t taken enough steps outside of high school to know what each subject is like at uni.

I don’t like that I have to decide my career path without the right experience right now, but it is what it is.

I don’t know what design is like, what uni math is like, what labs might involve, how much I like theory to hands-on stuff. I only know what I’ve been good at highschool and that doesn’t depict what occurs during university. I’m in the dark, hence why I’m on these forums to gauge what might really go on

Its a matter of risk and Imperial has higher risk that I will not like it. But its prospects are statistically higher, and that’s something that I can’t ignore, cause at the end of the day, money & opportunity is important. So that’s the dilemma essentially.

What happened to Cal (where there’s a bit more flexibility of major)?

I just posted this thread to compare the UK choices. Cal is my get out of jail free card for now

And what about cheaper options in NZ? If you’re undecided, a major in something general like physics or engineering physics (that would prepare you for many engineering master’s) at a cheap price probably makes the most sense. Then get a master’s in the field you want to enter after you figure out what you want to do with your life.

Sounds like a good idea, but i’m really not trying to head back to NZ after coming all the way out unless i have to. i.e corona doesnt stop

Nobody says you have to stay in NZ forever.

You will likely live over a half century. 50+ years ahead of you. I know 3 years seems like eternity to you now (I was a teenager too once), but if you look at it from that perspective, what’s 3 years?

It makes more sense to explore industries, ask professionals for informational interviews if possible (or just research online), and figure out what you want to do (at least early in your career) rather than spend a lot of money studying something you may not like and enter a career you may not care for.

It may turn out that you’re more interested in the social sciences than engineering, for instance, and beefing up math skills via applied math or engineering science in undergrad would set you up well for graduate fields like economics as well. Wouldn’t hurt for CS/data science either.

Beefing up on math isn’t a bad idea. Thanks for your responses, ill fill in my application to Auckland Uni.
Moneywise, I am fortunate enough to have compensation till 22, so my parents’ ideology is to go all out while I still have the opportunity.

What’s this compensation and why would it run out at 22?

With the NZ educational model being pretty similar to the UK model, I’d wager that OP hasn’t seen a social science class for two years and probably had good reason for that.
And with a further maths A level OP doesn’t need to “beef up” on his math skills either. He’d be at a sophomore level at a US uni at least.

At some point two years ago to decided on a maths, further maths, physics, CS path. Do you have any reason to completely overthrow that?

AFAIK (I’m not a scientist or engineer, just married to one) material Science Engineering is basically applied physics, and I’m sure math and programming skills will come in somewhere. If you mostly liked your A levels, you’ll like the course.

And ICL is NOT behind oxbridge in engineering prestige, and I am saying this as an oxbridge alumna! Stop calling yourself an oxbridge reject, start calling yourself, proudly, an ICL admit.

(And apply to NZ universities, you may have reasons to avoid London for a few more months or even years. It’s heartbreaking.)

Edited my post just in time because I saw on your other thread that you DO have a design portfolio which got you accepted to the UCL course and feel that applying maths to design “is you” which is a bit different from “I can draw but not really”.

So, what’s it to be? Engineering or designing? Like all fine arts and design subjects, even engineering design is more of a professional and financial risk than straight out engineering. Harder to get work placements, harder to get that first real job, harder to get a good salary, harder to advance. You have to WANT it.

@Tigerle:
“AFAIK (I’m not a scientist or engineer, just married to one) material Science Engineering is basically applied physics, and I’m sure math and programming skills will come in somewhere.”

There is some overlap between applied physics and materials science but I see a lot more chemistry in that material science degree.

“And with a further maths A level OP doesn’t need to “beef up” on his math skills either.”

Further Maths covers a lot, but still not as much as an Applied Math or Engineering Science bachelor’s. Regardless, the point remains that if the OP isn’t much interested in chemistry, materials science may not be the best degree and if he isn’t much interested in design, engineering and architecture design probably isn’t the right degree either.

I do see that the Imperial materials science department says it is easy to transfer between their degrees (all materials science; one of them has a handful of management classes).

Thats a company compensation

@Tigerle I was hoping the outcome of the engineering design course was something along the lines of a structured engineer/consultant, rather than some straight-up artist/architect. The director during the interview was saying companies were asking UCL to bridge the gap between engineer & architect, so the prospects didn’t seem to bad.
But yea definitely agree that to succeed, you really want to get it.

@Tigerle

“And with a further maths, A level OP doesn’t need to “beef up” on his math skills either. He’d be at a sophomore level at a US uni at least.”

Sorry, you think that my further maths allows me to cruise through a freshman year worth of engineering mathematics? (Also what is an OP) You think this is the same for UCL or ICL’s first couple of math modules too? (they dont ask for furtherm as a subject requisite)

I chose my A levels because it was easier to be the best at it. And more importantly, they didn’t have much theory compared to say… English or biology, so preparation for the exams was just a matter of solving problems.

As @purpletitan mentions, I do think that there is a lot of chemistry involved, and furthermore according to an ICL materials student, labs are an integral weekly thing. I’m not too sure how I will feel about it seeing as mixing chemicals or learning about bonds was something that made me decide against taking chemistry as an A-level. But uni material chem is very probably a whole different ball game.

I have applied to Auckland uni for an Honours in mathematics, just in case all of this blows up, and to build up my mathematics foundation until I can head back to the UK.

Thanks for the ICL big up
-btw where did you go at oxbridge and for what major?

Ah, OK. So the company will cover all tuition?

In that case, why not Engineering Math/Stats at Cal?

And yes, Maths + Further Maths would make you quite advanced in math compared to Americans starting undergrad. Also for the courses you’ve gotten in to in the UK.

3 A’s (also B’s and C’s) in Physics, CS, and Maths would give you 24 credits (120 to graduate) at Cal, so knocking off a semester, making graduating in 3 years at Cal conceivable with summer classes. That means you might be able fit in a 1Y master’s by 22 (does the company cover that?)

there’s a ‘progressive cap’. for example, let’s say at 20k they cover 85%, 30k 60%, 40k 50%… (don’t know the exact figures) and anything over comes out of the pocket. It’s not full tuition. But definitely makes it much more affordable for an international student. (cal is around 44, excluding housing which is ~18) I do believe its till 22 or a 4-year uni degree

I don’t quite understand, 3 A’s in A levels will give me a 24 credit head start? I’m expecting 3A* and A so does that warrant more?. Aren’t credits given from completing exams/coursework? Very confused. Also, America does a the ‘1-year master’? I thought the Meng was not accepted in the US

Lastly, is the primary reason you’re pushing the US is because of its flexibility?

^ Yes, flexibility is important for someone unsure about what career they want to enter.

And American colleges often give credit for exams. Americans would be most familiar with AP (Advanced Placement) but many also give them for IB and the various A-Levels (Cambridge, Singapore, etc.). You’d have to meet a certain threshold to gain credit, sometimes the thresholds make sense and sometimes they do not. It varies by college. But in any case, what matters for you is that you will have 24 credits from A-Levels (you won’t get more for A*) and you have to be careful not to take certain classes to negate those credits:
https://engineering.berkeley.edu/students/undergraduate-guide/exams/
https://engineering.berkeley.edu/students/undergraduate-guide/degree-requirements/major-programs/engineering-science/engineering-mathematics-statistics/

There are many 1-year master’s (and 2-year maters) in the US and around the world. American unis wouldn’t call it an MEng. Usually an MS in STEM fields (and social science ones too). There are also many other types of master’s.

Okay, I really didn’t know that about masters in the US.
Where did you get this info of 24 credits, is it available on the uni website?
How do I then sort my classes so I don’t negate the credits and at the same time can finish in 3 years?