Important advice for selecting teachers

College Majors Music Major
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<p>vieuxtemps,
i play double bass. there's lots of tension between studios that can cause problems - at least in the bass world. for instance, there's one studio at juilliard i definitely wouldn't want to be in if i were to apply there for graduate school, because i was in two of the other studios when i was a student there, and i just would feel like i was abandoning a certain school of thought if i went into the other studio. </p>

<p>also, for bass players, we have two different types of bows to deal with - french and german. some teachers don't like teaching a player who has learned the other kind of bow because it makes teaching right hand things more difficult. a lot of them can teach both, but it's another issue we have to deal with. </p>

<p>i've been really lucky in that i've had great teachers who i've really gotten along with pretty much since i started playing. if you're looking to going into music though, just take some lessons and find someone you get along with and whose playing you like and teaching style you like.</p>

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<p>O I see what you mean...</p>

<p>I wasn't talking about a technical issue, like Russian vs Franco-Belgian bow technique, or what you're talking about in bass playing. I'm talking about a Stern endorsed violinist comming into contact of one of the (many) people whose careers he derailed and destroyed. There's a teacher at Curtis and a few other places who will NOT take someone with that background, not to mention some conductors and vise versa.</p>

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<p>Indeed, violin teachers these days are remarkably flexible about their students' prior training. I guess because so many of today's major teachers were trained by representatives of multiple schools, they are better able than their own teachers would have been to teach students from backgrounds unlike that which they provide (if that makes sense).</p>

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<p>Cartera - regarding trial lessons with teachers - Unfortunately for most of us, going through the admissions process with our kid is usually our first and only exposure, so it's hard to know in advance what to do! My kid did have some trial lessons, but applied to a couple schools, including the one he attends, without prior contact. (It was a scheduling and cost issue.) In those cases, he was able to use advice from others as to who might be a good match for him. (One of the reasons summer programs can be so beneficial! Those are folks who knew my S's playing, and were able to make school and teacher recommendations that were valuable and appropriate.) Although I don't recommend it, it IS possible, based on his experience, to get in, and have a successful relationship, with a teacher you've never met.</p>

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<p>I will also add, from a jazz perspective, that my son is studying with a teacher whom he greatly respects and admires and has a good relationship with, though he did not meet or have a sample lesson with him prior. Although we visited his school a couple of times before he applied and sat in on some classes and rehearsals, I did not know at that time that you could request a lesson. However, his selection of schools and teachers was based on the teachers whose technique and style he admired and wanted to emulate, so it worked out quite well. There was one school he applied to where he did not care for teacher's playing, but admired students of the teacher. In the end, however, he decided that was not enough for him.</p>

<p>I wanted to also respond to this earlier post by violadad:</p>

<p>"There are egos that require stroking, there are politics that complicate the process, there is nepotism and favoritism. It is important to be aware they exist... at the undergrad, grad and professional levels. Just like any other discipline or profession."</p>

<p>I am glad this point has been clearly stated and I appreciate the perspective Vieutemps5 has provided because I have certainly seen evidence of this. The audition is critical, and it is important that the student focus on preparations for the audition and not so much on these things. But I don't think the music audition process is any different from academic admissions in that these extraneous considerations do sometimes find their way into the process.</p>

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<p>Also realize that there are schools that admit undergrads without a studio assignment. When son was admitted to Eastman his letter stated that studio assignments would not be made until they knew who was choosing to enroll. Son had another option and did not want to enroll at Eastman until he knew his studio assignment. At that point he called the teacher who he had had a couple of sample lessons with. He wanted to be assigned to this teacher's studio. Teacher called back when son was out for the evening so I got to talk to him. I was very polite but essentially said that we would not send in a deposit until we knew what the studio assignment would be. Teacher said he would get on it and call back within 48 hours. He called back the next evening to tell son that son would be assigned to his studio.</p>

<p>So be aware that acceptance to the school does not always give you all the info you want. If you don't get a studio assignment with your letter and that is important to you, don't be afraid to politely inquire about the situation.</p>

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<p>Reading this makes me think I need a drink. Oh wait, it's only 2:15 and I don't really drink.</p>

<p>Diet coke, anyone? ;)</p>

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<p>Allmusic: my sentiments exactly. I'm starting to feel like I sat too long with the other parents at my son's precollege!! Which is really more a reflection on my anxiety over this process, more than anything else!</p>

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<p>Interesting turn of events I heard this evening about a singing friend of son's who is at one of the prestigious stand-alone conservatories. This person is a freshman and has been miserable for several reasons but primarily felt the voice teacher was damaging the voice. After last semester, gathered up courage, asked for sample lessons with several other teachers and changed voice teachers. The former teacher was gracious, the student is much happier. This at a school where egos loom large. So it can be done.</p>

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<p>At some of the conservatories, a former teacher will not be able to grade the student in any subsequent situations, a tacet recognition of potential problems. Your son's friend was wise and fortunate.</p>

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<p>Politics is everywhere; ego is everywhere...wait till you hit the conductors of the big orchestras. It's part of the game. But life is like that. Vieuxtemps5 is very wise to point out the potential pitfalls...you really do have to do your homework and get the intel on the teachers and how you request them.
Vieuxtemps...good luck with your situation. String teachers, for some reason, are often so proprietary about their students. I have not found the same in the brass world.</p>

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<p>I'm leaving a very powerful teacher at the end of the semester, and they don't even know I'm not going to their summer thing again... that's why I'm staying anonymous.</p>

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<p>I am eternally grateful that DS has found outstanding teachers, with excellent reputations, who run collegial studios and work for my kid. I will say, it took a LOT of research on his part to do this. He looked into the teachers and studios FIRST...ensemble opportunities second. For him, it fell into place nicely.</p>

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<p>thumper, your son's experience sounds like solid advice. I always wonder, though, if a jazz musician's approach makes the ensemble experience of equal importance to the teacher relationship? I don't know--I am just going by unschooled observation of the jazz student scene.</p>

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<p>The meeting my son had during his visit with the instructor who teaches him improvisation and the opportunity to observe his class carried a lot of weight. The quality of the ensembles was also VERY important to him.</p>

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<p>The quality of the ensembles is as important to my son as the teacher. I think that this is different for jazz than classical, because he cares mainly about the teacher for his classical instrument.</p>

<p>Jazz is SO much about the other players; it would be odd to me for the kids not to consider emsembles very carefully.</p>

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<p>I agree. DS heard the orchestras everywhere he applied (both grad and undergrad). I remember his asking me after one concert "what did you think of the strings?" He knew that good strings were very important even though he also knows the importance of the winds and brass to complete the ensemble.</p>

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<p>Vieuxtemps wrote: <i'm leaving="" a="" very="" powerful="" teacher="" at="" the="" end="" of="" semester,="" and="" they="" don't="" even="" know="" i'm="" not="" going="" to="" their="" summer="" thing="" again...="" that's="" why="" staying="" anonymous.=""></i'm></p>

<p>Vieuxtemps, I'm going to offer a bit of advice, and you may well be quite cognizant of it based on some of your other posts. In that case, I offer it here to the less well versed as general background, info, warning, or whatever label one chooses to assign.</p>

<p>You described earlier some of the less pleasant aspects of the music world, including teacher/performer egos, potential for career derailment, rival teacher jealousies. I added favoritism, nepotism, personality conflicts to the mix.</p>

<p>It's important to realize the existence of these "obstacles", and try and working within or around them in a professional manner. </p>

<p>I seriously would think twice about informing the "powerful" teacher about not being available for a summer program if they have a reasonable expectation that you've committed yourself by word or deed to be there. Additionally, I would suggest informing the instructor as quickly as possible about your change of plans. You may give whatever valid reason you like, but the key is not to leave them in the lurch, having to come up with finding an equivalent caliber player. Depending on the program, there may be issues with small ensemble pairings, coaching assignments, etc. that are a hassle to rectify at the last moment.</p>

<p>There are many reasons for not attending a particular summer program, including employment issues, financial, personal, different type of opportunities (high intensity chamber versus orchestral for examples), or the chance to study abroad or with a noted master. Most teachers have the good of the student in mind, and are open to their needs. However, it is difficult for any teacher to be happy if they have to deal with a "surprise" sprung on them at the last moment when open communication at an earlier date would have made it a non-issue.</p>

<p>Another factor to consider is whether this teacher knows you are intending to transfer. There is a code of ethics endorsed by the National Association of Music Schools which outlines specific responsibilities for members, and part of that code deals with recommendations, recruitment of and acceptance of transfer students.</p>

<p>The competition in the field is tough enough based on talent alone. Certain unpleasantries that you yourself have cited or may have experienced make the chances even harder. Ideally, talent and committment should be enough basis for success, but it is not always the case.</p>

<p>Do not do yourself a disservice by not addressing a situation that can be handled easily now with minimal impact on the teacher/student relationship.
If you wait, there is the potential of a poor decision impacting your future success.</p>

<p>Think aout it.</p>

<p>Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>To connect the dots even more plainly for anyone considering transferring who might need this spelled out, most music schools (NASM-affiliated or otherwise) require incoming transfer students to produce a form signed by the dean of the school from which they are transferring along with the application. That form states that the school has been made aware of the intention of the student to transfer out and it is designed to protect the interests of not only both schools involved, but the student as well. As long as the administration is involved, it becomes more difficult for an individual teacher to take revenge in petty ways. </p>

<p>You may certainly expect that the dean, when asked to sign such a form, will contact the teacher involved to find out what is going on. It would be a bad idea to give the form to the dean without first speaking to the teacher, because most teachers would be quite annoyed if the dean is the first person to tell them. This would constitute burning a bridge in a major way, which is not something that you can afford to do in the music world. Counterfeiting the dean's signature on the form would constitute fraud and could result in expulsion from both programs.</p>

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<p>bass dad, this isn't a regular conservatory teacher... think about being on first name basis with basically every major conductor alive, accolades of pretty much every kind and the widest name recognition... there's no escaping that.</p>