I’m curious what your impressions are regarding honors courses at the collegiate level. In high school, honors courses alone are often not seen as sufficiently difficult for more competitive undergrad programs – unless honors is the maximum level offered by the high school (then that’s considered in admissions – supposedly). Otherwise, a variety of AP or IB courses seem to be expected.
Since there isn’t the same standardized(-ish…) AP/IB infrastructure in college, do you think honors courses in college actually carry any weight? How has your child’s experiences varied in terms of how employers and/or grad programs viewed their collegiate honors courses?
I don’t know how employers or grad programs view honors courses, but in my daughter’s experience, honors courses in college have not been more difficult than regular courses. They’ve been different, but it hasn’t been more difficult to achieve a good grade.
H has told me and our pups that when he hires people out of college, he prefers to talk to those taking honors courses. For our State Flagship, the students in the honors program have historically shown themselves to be hard workers and very rapid learners, which translates to a shorter training period before they are highly productive employees. So yes, it absolutely makes a difference.
But I suppose much could depend on the department/major/field of study.
At some places, honors colleges and courses are just window-dressing. At some, they are much more rigorous. At some, the rigor varies widely and some honors courses may be the easiest a student takes (depending on major).
Honors courses can be a way to be in smaller classes, which leads to interactive classes (you MUST be prepared and can’t hide in the back of the lecture hall, you have to argue back and forth instead of simply listening, you have to apply the problem or build something…), better contact with professors, more involvement with the “life of the mind”, and building a relationship with classmates that is also tied to intellectual pursuits or the academic context.
It really depends on the university: some only offer one, perhaps two such classes per semester per level (ie., freshen could take 1-2 per semester, then 1-2 as sophomores), whereas excellent programs can offer upwards of 250-300 choices. Some universities use it as a “required classical canon” program whereas others don’t require anything.
At Case Western, they have an “enhanced” (one could say honors) version of the Calculus courses…
e.g.
There is regular Calc 1 (Math 121) but an enhanced version (Math 123)
MATH 121 (Calc 1) is the regular first semester course in the standard science and engineering calculus sequence. This course covers functions, limits, derivatives of algebraic and trigonometric functions, related rates, applications of the derivative, definite integrals, antiderivatives, and fundamental theorem of calculus.
MATH 123 covers the same topics but is taught with more emphasis on the underlying theory. Students taking this course should have a high level of computation proficiency and a willingness to be challenged http://www.case.edu/ugstudies/media/caseedu/undergraduate-studies/documents/FY-Guide-2015-2016.pdf
I would not worry about what employers think…If you find the material engaging and want to challenge your self…take an honors course. It isn’t like HS where to be truly prepared for good colleges you need to at least be at the honors level.
For Northeastern honors classes come in two types - the honors version of a regular class which means a smaller section and no need for a recitation class or an honors only interdisciplinary class on some cool subject - such as spies in the cold war, or the beatles in society, etc. These classes can be difficult but not ridiculous.
My D is in a flagship Honors College. Her experience has been mixed: Honors business classes seemed no tougher than the non-Honors versions, just smaller. She thought her English / lit courses had a heavy workload (partially because of what @MYOS1634 mentioned – in a class of 15 or fewer, you need to be fully prepared to participate every single day) but I doubt that she ever saw a syllabus for the non-Honors version, so who knows if it was actually more rigorous. She will NOT take the Honors version of Vector Calc because other students have warned that it is harder than non-Honors version (which is already pretty difficult), probably because it is usually taken by Math and Engineering majors (she isn’t) from the Honors College, so really strong students moving at a fast pace. Her hope is that the overall Honors designation will matter to employers, although the individual class choices may not (meaning an employer likely would not care that she took Honors Accounting, but might consider completion of the formal Honors curriculum a plus).
My and my son’s experiences were with an Honors Program which had many Honors courses, Honors sections and ability to do more to get Honors credit for those who worked out an acceptable plan to do so. Excellent sequences in math, chemistry physics and biology available. Also likely excellent integrated liberal arts. Plus many other courses. I agree it depends on the school.
I have done online searches of several Honors Colleges/Programs. Much variation. Not impressed at all with some that segregated students into a “college” with required generalized courses plus housing but only for the first year or two. General survey courses, whether it be in a science or other field, lack the in depth study of a subject.
Honors is not always correlated with difficulty. And difficulty depends on the background knowledge as well as the ability in any given subject on the part of the student. As in the above post, #9, choosing honors over regular also depends on goals. Theory or problem based math for example.
I am currently in my third year of a flagships honors program and have not found the classes to be even slightly more difficult than normal courses. Maybe more chatty, but not more rigorous. Based on my experience, I may or may not do the honors program again. Still trying to determine the value. I definitely would not base my college selection on an honors program. Finally, as a future employer I would give very little weight to honors classes if I were trying trying to ascertain rigor or intelligence. Some of the classes were smaller than regular courses, most of the students were pretty competitive coming out of high school and a few of the classes had no test or graded assignments, your grade was totally based on class participation. Basically if you could talk you got an A. Loved those 2 classes. At any rate, some kids love to say they are “in the Honors College”, for me it has been more of an opportunity to meet people outside my more technical degree program.
Speaking for my own experience hiring new college grads for 30+ years-- it depends.
The gold standard for a transcript/application is a kid who has challenged him/herself. How that manifests itself- well, that varies based on the person, the college and other circumstances.
A kid who chooses classes to “protect” the GPA- i.e. the easiest version of every required course, the watered-down topic instead of the intense academics, only takes classes in subjects he/she is already good at- that’s not challenge.
In some colleges, taking the honors path is a good signal that this was not the case. In others, it’s the easy way out (i.e. not harder or more rigorous, just a different designation or easier to register for). So it depends.
There are also lots of ways to demonstrate “challenge” that aren’t classroom based. Being in charge of research for an award winning debating society sends a different signal than being in charge of spring break planning for a sorority. Taking a leadership role for a university committee on evaluating how to make three 19th century buildings ADA compliant sends a different signal than working on the team which plans the senior week beer bash.
Kids get caught up in “I need an A in Buyer Behavior if I’m going to get a job in advertising”. Sometimes it’s more relevant to an employer that you got a job in Alumni Relations your senior year evaluating past ten years giving trends and making recommendations on how to better “sell” the university to its graduates for a better hit rate for the annual campaign. Do that and you can skip “Buyer Behavior” and take a class in Russian Literature or Civil War.
Sure they do. Many colleges, for example, offer an honors version of calc. Harvard’s Math 55, Penn’s Math 260, Stanford’s Math 51H, and Chicago’s Math 16100 come immediately to mind.
S did honors at a top flagship, he was hoping to find a more intellectual, engaged experience. Instead, he said the kids had an attitude, were disrespectful to the professor (texting, surfing) and were generally less engaged than classes taken outside of honors. Needless to say, he was very disappointed.
My kid used Honors program (not a separate Honors college) at public flagship to connect more closely with faculty and to study more deeply in areas he loved. At his flagship, the Honors discussion section of a lecture class was led by the professor rather than a TA, so he developed strong working relationship with those faculty, and they have written internship and scholarship recommendations for him. He has also taken Honors sections in classes where he just loved the subject matter – for his own pleasure in working closely with the professor. Broadly, he described that the Honors sections were more intellectually challenging with less busy work than regular sections, though he also got Honors credit in courses where there wasn’t an Honors section offered, and that required writing an extra paper, a longer paper etc., and that was definitely more work.
I once asked a professor what he say as the difference between his honors section and his regular classes. He replied that in the regular classes the students were often less prepared for class and he frequently had to lead the discussions. In the honors sections, he often found he had to fight to get into the discussions. The students tend to be well prepared and more active in the discussions.
