It is likely a foreseeable coincidence that the people with beefy bios would do the best in the audition.
Not necessarily. Some child actors tank in this process.
Agreed - I have often heard that one of the disadvantages of early success (and I say this with NO disrespect intended to @CTDramaMom’s kid- I have no idea what roles/tours she was mentioning earlier) is that one can get stuck in “child actor” mode. Which is great if you are “4’10” like Connie in a Chorus line and can keep that going, but can be an issue for others
Well mine has definitely outgrown kid roles LOL. But I wholeheartedly agree that what it takes to succeed as a child actor (ability to focus, decent singing voice for MT, ability to take direction) is nothing like the skill it takes to succeed as an adult. That’s why I (1) encouraged my child to study her craft if she wanted to do this professionally as an adult, not just jump in auditioning when she graduated high school, even though she already has her union card; and (2) used a coach to help her through the college audition process. I think where her years as a child actor serves her best is that she knows how to conquer the nerves that go along with auditioning, and also knows how to take the “nos” in stride.
Yes, @toowonderful, I should have clarified that with NYU (and a few others, but NYU is the most extreme example), it is academics that comes into play, not fame or credits. That is what I meant.
And actually, there can be a DOWNSIDE to having a stacked resume/professional credits/fame. For example, if a kid is already AEA, they need permission to perform in college shows (that happened at Ithaca…Patti Lupone’s son graduated from the BFA Acting program, and he had to get permission from Equity when he performed). They usually give it, but it’s just another hurdle the school has to go through. And Madonna’s daughter is at UMich…security is probably a concern for them. I really think the vast majority of schools go for the talent they see in the room. An impressive resume can show that a kid knows how to work, but it can also mean that they have ingrained bad habits. It can mean a lot of different things. It all depends on the person.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that there a LOT of examples of kids who are from tiny little towns, completely unknown, with no professional credits, who get accepted to the tippy top schools. And, it’s not like there are a ton of working Broadway actors/kids of famous people competing to get into MT programs. If they are already successful (i.e., a regular Broadway actor), why go to school? But what the OP said about this being scary competitive is true. It IS scary competitive. But the kids of famous people/kids with tons of professional experience are not the only competition … and not necessarily the fiercest competition. All the kids who are great are the competition. It’s best to just think about your child’s strengths, your child’s individuality, and encourage them to do their best. The rest is out of your control…
@theatrework - honestly, the level of talent that I knew would be at auditions for schools like Penn State far outweighed any concerns that I had about who had what on their resume. You don’t need professional experience to be amazing, nor does professional experience necessarily mean you are amazing (although it can certainly be a good indicator). Its all about what you can bring to the audition room and from the older students that I knew from my d’s high school that got into places like Penn State and Texas State, I knew that you had to be really, really good. And yes, come to think of it, all of them had at least some professional experience.
Facing the process can be very daunting, whether you look at Freshman bios, Young Arts videos, Freshmen showcase videos, or whatever. I think it tends to be more daunting for parents than for students, who tend to brim with youthful confidence (thank goodness) vs. their sadder-but-wiser elders.
One of the tough things about the college MT audition process is that the high school theatre world tends to be relatively insular, without a ready mechanism to expose students and parents to what talent looks like on a national level and how you compare, unlike sports or science fair (for example) where, if you are realistic, you can fairly readily figure out where you stand. Until my d decided that she wanted to major in theatre in college, I had no idea and would never have guessed how competitive the environment really is. All of the parents in d’s theatre class in high school, almost all of whom thought that getting into a PAHS was a pretty good indication of possible future sucess in theatre, expressed shock and amazement at the college theatre audition process and how talented and well prepared so many of the students were.
The director of d’s high school theatre program, whose students get into top acting and technical theatre programs every year (last year d’s acting and tech/design classmates got into Carnegie Mellon, UNCSA, DePaul, Minnesota/Guthire, CalArts, etc.), tells parents, “Getting into the top Musical Theatre programs is a crazy process.”
@EmsDad Yeah, It’s crazy. All the directors of programs I spoke with said the competition is getting stronger each year by a LOT. It’s not an exaggeration when a friend told me her daughter who graduated a few years ago could not get into the same program today. And she is on Bway right now in an ensemble role.
What is the general feeling then about going to what may be considered a no name program but now probably has some considerable talent attending? Is it worth going to just any program that’ll take you if you have been rejected by the more famous 10-15? Or would you think that the odds of succeeding in a business with waves of great talent washing up each year were slim-perhaps to rethink the major rather than try to come in from the bottom tier.
In a way like law school. Sure, many people can get accepted to SOME law school but with so many lawyers graduating each year, where is your career going if you don’t graduate from one of the top 25 schools? You can make a living as a lawyer perhaps but you know you are not getting a shot at making partner in a prestigious firm in NYC. I suppose that is for each person to answer for him/herself.
Since none of us knows how this is going to shake out just yet, I guess we can hang on to some hope.
@mtmcmt … here’s what I think - and I hope no one takes this personally, but if one would give up on pursuing the arts as a career just because he/she did not get into to X school, then I believe they may lack the stomach as well as the heart for pursuing a career in theatre.
My D’s school currently has a student who costarred in a movie with an actress that rhymes with Crease Mitherspoon as well as an alum who was on what is arguably the most popular television show right now as well as having been on Broadway. But I think those two kids would’ve had success no matter where they went to school … and I would guess that’s true for most of today’s successful actors.
Also, I do think the odds of success coming out of CMU are definitely greater. But I think we’re splitting hairs … like if the odds of an alum of CMU having great commercial success are 1% (and that’s overshooting it for sure) than the odds of a no name school are probably 1/2%. Both odds suck.
I wouldn’t dash someone’s dreams based on where they were admitted to college. So much of whether someone succeeds in this business is based on motivation, strength (mental, physical, and emotional), and luck. We’ve met some enormously talented people who just didn’t want to gut out trying to make it on Broadway or in NYC or Hollywood, for that matter. Besides there are many ways to succeed and be happy with what you gain from a performing arts degree.
Thank YOU @KaMaMom - that is a thoughtful response. You also made me laugh, by the way!
And the odds you list are sobering and put things into perspective. I would love each college to put out where their grads are 2 years out, 5 years out, 15 years out. (Since they’ve only a few each year it’s not that burdensome)
THAT would truly be useful information! I know a couple schools, Meulenberg, I think, have that somewhere but wouldn’t it be great if all 40-50 programs had lists of who what where and for how long?? It would be refreshing.
Kyle Dean Massey is fairly young still and when he was auditioning for colleges his senior year, he got shutout and didn’t make it into any CCM/CMU or any other audition school. Kyle Dean Massey went to his non-audition safety school yet he is still a big name Broadway stud. Of course maybe if he were to get into CMU, he would’ve climbed the theatre ladder quicker, who’s to say. Now he could be more of an exception not a standard but my point is that where you get accepted to for college isn’t always a reliable projection on career success.
Also, success doesn’t only mean playing leads on Broadway like Kyle Dean Massey. It doesn’t even mean just making it to broadway is success. To qualify as successful in this field you just need to be working. Easier said than done. There is someone here in my home state and he just went to a MSU Mankato, a state school that has a decent musical theatre program. It’s never talked about on here or by Playbill Edu. This guy performs in various theaters in the twin cities all the time and is a successful performer even though he’s not some Broadway star. Just keep in mind how you measure success
Also a lot of new programs don’t have award winning alum to show yet. CCM is the oldest musical theatre program in the country. Last years Tony’s when Kelli O’hara and Kristin Chenoweth were giving a lot of good rep for OCU, and the Florence Birdwell award. OCU has been around for awhile and Kristin and Kelli have been out of college for a long time.
Pace University doesn’t have any (I think) award winners or big stars as alums. Because there program is relatively new. It takes a many years after graduation to build your career. I’m sure 15 years from now Pace will have lots of Alum to boast about. Many school’s MT programs are somewhat new and there are more and more being founded given the increasing interest in the major, you can’t always judge off those Playbill.com articles that talk about how NYU has the most tony winners or something
I’m not quite sure that the measure of success would be only “recognizable” names … perhaps the best measure of success of a program would be how many of their graduates are consistently working in the field one year out, five years out, 10 years out, etc.
Even then, I’m not sure that those facts/figures would be a measure of success of a program either.
Yes I agree. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear but I agree with Kamamom
Although OCU is undoubtedly proud of Kristin and Kelli, the school continues to have many, many alums in addition to those two who are consistently working on Broadway and regionally. We have been trying to keep a list on the OCU board, for anyone who might be interested. It certainly is not comprehensive. Mostly compiled from things the school posts about. But it gives you a general idea of where some of the alums are working:
You might check out the school specific boards at the top of the Musical Theater forum for the schools in which you are interested. They also may have a thread discussing where their alums are working.
@mtmcmt, you posed the question, “Is it worth going to just any program that’ll take you if you have been rejected by the more famous 10-15?” I think this is a very personal question. I know my D said that if she didn’t get into any of the 16 schools she applied to (and then that number went down, b/c she crossed some off her list based on her audition experience, etc.), then she would give up. She did not have any non-audition safeties, but she had a nice spread of schools from the holy trifecta down to some that are not considered by many to be “top tier.” She ended up doing just fine and is happily attending her personal top choice school. BUT, if she hadn’t gotten into one of her top 8 or so schools, she would have changed majors. And, I know two other kids who have expressed the exact same sentiments.
These kids DO have the stomach to do this. They have known rejection, as have virtually all the kids in this field. They are driven. But for some of these kids, not getting into any program when they are prepared is a sign. (Note the “when they are prepared”…obviously, if they are not prepared, taking a gap year and trying again may very well be worth it.) I know, as does everyone else here, the stories about person X who was rejected everywhere and now is on Broadway, or the person who went to some tiny unknown college and is now on Broadway. But I tend to think that if a child is rejected from 15 schools when they are fully prepared to go through the audition process (coached properly, aware of the competition, healthy, etc.), then that means something. There are many, many kids who are not successful, for whatever reason. Not having the talent is one of those reasons. There are kids who are so driven and want this so badly that they will go to “any program” (your words) in the hopes that they will end up succeeding. And because there are many definitions of success, maybe they will succeed. But (and here is the sentence that will get me in trouble) there are, undoubtedly, delusional kids. Kids who cannot carry a tune, dance, or act who are trying to do this. I’m not doubting their love for the art, but you have to admit that not every one of the thousands of kids auditioning each year have talent.
Moreover, having the talent doesn’t translate automatically into success…
So figuring out what to do if a child doesn’t get into any of the 15 schools they apply for is very, very personal. And different kids will come up with different answers. So, I’m not sure anyone can answer that question for you. 
@monkey13 - when did your D say "if I don’t get in, I give up ? During the throes of the audition process? While I know NOTHING about your child and her veracity on that topic- Idk if I would take the words of a teenager in the middle of something that stressful as gospel truth.
And who knows what the next “hot” program will be- would people who started Tex St in 2012 (the year Kaitlin took over the program) have been told they were going “to just any program”?
BTW- and off topic- I looked up Kailtljn’s resume to check start date- and according to her own website - she attended but did not graduate from CMU. How is she a college professor without an advanced degree- or any degree for that matter? I am not trying to knock her- I just don’t understand how that would work- genuinely asking. Is she not considered a professor?
I struggle with that question too like if my D applies to a lot of schools and some are considered higher tier/harder admits but are known for great training & connections and she doesn’t get into any of them but gets accepted to an unknown program where you aren’t sure if the training is going to be enough & the school doesn’t really have connections, alumni network & name recognition to help…well I’m not sure if that’s really a good thing. Like if your chances of an MT career are slim anyway but if you’re coming out of a top tier program, where graduates are literally signed as they walk out the door senior year…well that’s a big boost to get you started. It might not sustain you but I’m thinking its a heck of a jumpstart. I think it takes more then just talent to get going and all those schools have the networking to help. It’s very frustrating because most are so expensive on top of it all.
I have been very impressed with the training and connections my son is getting at a non-top-ten program, so don’t rule it out.
I sort of worry about coming out of a “lower tier” program with a BFA bc the school may not have great connections and students will not have had much of an education. So a career in mt may not be realistic and they missed out on being educated and prepared for anything else. At some point, you have to be realistic. Thoughts?