<p>“thus far I have not found any auto merit school that I feel comfortable directing him to”</p>
<p>That may not have come across as I intended. He has looked through the auto merit thread and doesn’t find any schools that he is interested in. If I felt there were schools on the list that he should be more open minded toward I would exert some pressure, but I honestly don’t. Except for Alabama, but he is really uncomfortable about the South…we would have to visit the school, but feeler visits all over the country are cost prohibitive.</p>
<p>mathmom-
Yes all schools probably do have an a cappella group, but there are vast differences from school to school from what I gather. Some have one, some have a dozen. Coed vs all male, local performances vs national/international tours, pop music vs classical concentration and all genres in between…Yale even has a full on rush process like fraternities so not only do you need the talent but you have to “fit”. Some groups are more choreography based…some schools have fledgling clubs, others date back over 100 years…
Yes, he wants to take a look at RPI although it’s recent distinction as the 3rd most expensive college in American is not terribly encouraging!</p>
<p>The reason he took the ACT and SAT in Sep/Oct which NOONE does here until spring(and then only the SAT) is because he wanted a dose of reality before getting serious about a list. Now he finds that he is at least well into the mid range for any school so nothing is off the table. But, he is very aware that tens of thousands of kids are in the same range, and the odds are dismal for all of them. He has spent enough time on CC to know he is nothing special. </p>
<p>His impression of Harvard? “Harvard is for smart kids.” </p>
<p>I just finished reading “The Gatekeepers”, and I know the book is fairly old, so much of the information may be outdated. However, one of the main things that struck me was the pull that the college counselors at the top prep schools have. I concede that these students have world class high school educations and stats, so they are stellar candidates, but the fact that the schools are able to influence adcoms by advocating for specific students and asking for special treatment is…just disheartening.</p>
<p>The book also made me feel that admissions to top schools are more subjective and random than “wholistic”. It depends on whose pile you ultimately end up in and their personal biases and agenda…it depends on when your file is picked up-are they tired, in a hurry, have they just accepted 5 kids in a row and know they need a reject? Is your file picked up late in the cycle and they already have enough of what ever special qualities you possess?</p>
<p>planner,
Colleges like H really ARE actively looking for top students these days who otherwise would not apply , especially accomplished AA’s. Your son probably does have a “stronger” chance at any of the top schools he applies to than the typical white or asian non legacy student. That said, a 5% acceptance rate does mean the chances of rejection are 95%. And its true that there are so many qualified applicants that the reality is admission officers are looking to find reasons to reject students. Its very good that you are helping your son keep that perspective. </p>
<p>DS wanted nothing to do with HYP in 2006- he came from a H school where seemingly all the top students applied to the Ivy’s, as well as Stanford. And being the intellectual, anti-snob that he is, he refused to apply to them.
But that was before they instituted their very generous FA programs for middle class families. Given that factor, it may not hurt for your DS to throw them an application and see what happens.</p>
<p>And I’ll just throw in the suggestion that he consider applying to University of Southern California, as it DOES have a strong Geological studies program, a strong engineering program, a great music school, an ethnically diverse student population[ non preppy though] great study abroad programs[ including one especially for Geology students] , AND they give over 150 Full Tuition scholarships each year, as well as 10 Stamps scholarships. They also offer full credit for AP scores [ up to 36 units] and encourage students to both major and minor in areas they are interested in. DS started his college career with sophomore standing, and graduated with a major on Geology and a minor in Physics.</p>
<p>Actually, he is something special. He’s African American – a member of an underrepresented minority group (usually called URMs on this board). Like legacies and recruited athletes, URMs have a better chance of admission than other applicants with the same credentials.</p>
<p>This situation doesn’t always work in the applicant’s favor. Sometimes, URM students get in to colleges where they’re over their heads academically. Their high school preparation is so poor that they’re not ready to succeed at an academically rigorous college, and things don’t go well for them when they get there. But that isn’t going to happen to your son. He has shown – through his excellent test scores, including AP scores – that he has managed to learn a lot despite the weaknesses of his high school. </p>
<p>Getting back to Cornell for a moment (and I’m only emphasizing it because it’s my alma mater and my daughter’s, so I know a little about it), he has qualifications comparable to those of the students it admits – even the Engineering students, who tend to have particularly high test scores. He may even be in the top half. If you figure that his URM status cancels out his unimpressive ECs (which it probably does), I think he would have a very good chance of getting in if he chooses to apply. </p>
<p>He could even take a shot at colleges that are a little more selective than Cornell. It’s not ridiculous to try. And the worst they can say is no.</p>
<p>Of course, he still needs a safety school. Everyone does. But the word “dismal” should not be in your vocabulary.</p>
<p>menloparkmom and Marian-
Thank you for the advice. He is trying to keep his URM status out of the equation when tempering his expectations. </p>
<p>“Sometimes, URM students get in to colleges where they’re over their heads academically. Their high school preparation is so poor that they’re not ready to succeed at an academically rigorous college, and things don’t go well for them when they get there.”</p>
<p>This is an excellent point and I don’t feel it applies only to URMs…WHY is there such an obsession which reach schools for students(and their parents) when the students clearly are not academically qualified? How can it not end badly even if they gain admission? URM aside, if my S did not have the test scores and academic record to support an application to a particular school I would tell him straight out. Also, I would never want him to feel that he ended up with a spot at a college that he did not earn or deserve.</p>
<p>mini-
"Start with the safety. Then the rest doesn’t matter. A safety is a school where he is sure to get in, you are sure to afford, and that he LOVES. Spend at least as much time finding the safety as you do the rest of the list. "</p>
<p>If only it were that simple…certainly he can find any number of admit safeties, and even full rides and SUNYs for financial safeties…but loving one of them? That’s the problem. I like “free” as much as the next person, but thus far I have not found any auto merit school that I feel comfortable directing him to."</p>
<p>That’s why finding the safety takes as much time as the entire rest of the list. And is absolutely essential.</p>
<p>It is less likely to apply to your son with a 4.0 UW HS GPA, top end test scores (including AP), and did you mention college courses while in high school?</p>
<p>However, it is prudent to make the reach/match/safety assessments without considering being URM, since not all schools give a boost for being URM, and many that do give a smaller boost than is commonly believed.</p>
<p>You don’t have to love, love, love the safety, but you should be able to find something suitable. One hint: if you get in EA to a school, it’s a safety! That said, you’ll still need a back up plan if you don’t get in anywhere EA. You may not love every single thing about your safety, but it shouldn’t be some place you hate. My older son’s (comp sci guy with top stats) applied to the usual suspects for his match/reach choices. His two safeties were RPI and WPI. RPI is not a safety for everyone, but no one with his stats (or considerably lower stats) had ever been rejected from his school. It had a worse M/F ratio and not as cutting edge comp sce than places he liked better. Younger son found a college that offered an honors program and was tops in his major in a great city for internships for his safety. He actually probably liked it better than some of the other reachier schools he applied to. Generally a safety won’t have everything you want, but it can have a lot of it. Neither of my kids used SUNY’s for safeties. (Though if we’d needed a financial safety we might have.)</p>
<p>I totally agree with mathmom- a safety does not have to be the college you would die to go to, only the college that has MOST of want you want- be it programs, location, size, etc, but one that does want YOU. Applying early/ EA to a safety is a really good idea, as there is nothing more wonderful to know by Dec or Jan of his senior year that he WILL be going to college.
My son ended up at his “safety” because it had everything that he wanted- Merit $$, the programs he wanted, climate, closer to home than colleges on east coast- everything except “prestige”, which can be highly overrated and overvalued by naive HS’s. He soon got over that.</p>
<p>And you never know, my younger son’s EA safety was a reach school. No one was more surprised than him when he got in. His real safety gave him a half tuition merit scholarship - so that’s something else to consider - that extra money could make other opportunities possible that might not be at a school that costs more, and might soften the sting a bit. I agree most reaches aren’t perfect either - by visiting safeties early on in the process it’s easy to see that nearly anything is better than high school.</p>
<p>“My son ended up at his “safety” because it had everything that he wanted- Merit $$, the programs he wanted, climate, closer to home than colleges on east coast- everything except “prestige”, which can be highly overrated and overvalued by naive HS’s. He soon got over that.”</p>
<p>What an excellent statement. I really think that is the approach to take when picking safeties…if prestige were not a factor, what colleges meet the rest of your criteria?</p>
<p>"if prestige were not a factor, what colleges meet the rest of your criteria? "</p>
<p>When the serious “where do you want to apply” discussions began, in early 2005, he was sooooooo sure that he wanted to go to a college far away from here. [ironic, in that he ended up in here in Cal, but by the end of his HS career, after traveling back to visit 2 colleges during accepted students days, he realized that it would be nice to be closer to home] And 2005 was before many Elite colleges instituted generous FA programs aimed at middle class families, but we expected to qualify for some FA. He applied to these 15 colleges because they met his most important program requirement- a strong Geology dept., and most also had good if not great music programs. Some were / are prestigious, but that was not why he applied. His SAT’s, GPA, EC’s and outside academic research meant that he did have a chance at some and a greater chance at others, but we did cast a wide net. And back then many of these colleges did not participate in the Common App, and did not have the crazy low acceptance rates of today.
Stanford, Chicago, Brown, Dartmouth, Wash St Louis, Swarthmore, USC, Tufts, Pomona, Carleton, Oberlin,Vanderbilt, Northwestern,Whitman, Colgate.
He was accepted at 12, WL’d at 2- blew us away.</p>
<p>Tufts has the Beezlebubs (featured on “Glee”) for a cappella and they have a beautiful new music center. There are very few Lutheran churches in MA I’ve been told; I think the nearest one to Tufts is on the Arlington/Lexington border, about 300 members. Tufts financial aid packages are very competitive for need-based aid.</p>
<p>Brown has great acapella groups & a respectable univ chorus. But you will not find a lot of Missouri Synod Lutherans in RI. Or ELCAs for that matter— not that they are not there. RI is actually the home of some descendants of very early Swedish colonists there. </p>
<p>Forget what you will hear about Brown being “too liberal”–if he is majoring in Geosciences he will be with a different crowd anyway.</p>
<p>I live in Massachusetts and there are Lutheran churches in my area. Also many Episcopal churches. In our local area the two work closely together and have similarities in the services and mission. I know there are nuanced variations within denominations.</p>
<p>There are two Lutheran churches in Cambridge, Faith Lutheran Church and University Lutheran Church. These are close to Harvard and a quick subway ride from Tufts ( 2 stops).</p>
<p>My Harvard roommate is a Lutheran minister (in CT) and I know she attended Lutheran services at Harvard. However I think she was not Missouri Synod. It looks like these are your choices if you are looking for that specifically: [The</a> New England District, Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod](<a href=“New England District LCMS 🌟 New Website”>New England District LCMS 🌟 New Website)</p>