Intellectualism at Penn?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>I'm trying to decide between UChicago and Penn CAS. I'm probably going to study something along the lines of Econ/PoliSci, and the whole reason I applied to Penn to begin with was because they had the PPE major. From what I've heard and from predominant stereotypes, Chicago and Penn seem pretty opposite: Chicago is the uber-intellectual place "where fun goes to die" while Penn is exceedingly pre-professional and has a big drinking culture. I'm pretty outgoing and don't see myself having problems regardless of where I go, so the whole social scene thing isn't really problem for me. What appeals to me about Chicago is its intellectualism, but I still have several major reservations, which is why I'm really trying to consider Penn thoroughly. </p>

<p>How are the Econ and PoliSci departments at Penn? What are the disadvantages and advantages of PPE as opposed to majoring/minoring in Econ/PoliSci? Just how competitive and career-oriented is Penn's student body? And how much genuine intellectual curiosity exists, as opposed to just engineering a high GPA and getting that prestigious internship?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance! At this point visiting probably won't be an option for me so I really appreciate any input.</p>

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<p>Go to Chicago for econ…If you’re actually looking for an intellectual culture and a good (well, world-renowned) econ department, then you can’t ask for better than Chicago. At the top, there’s LSE, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Chicago.</p>

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<p>go to penn for overall undergrad experience</p>

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<p>^That goes without saying, but if I was in the OP’s position I’d go to Chicago simply because of the immense prestige of its econ department.</p>

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<p>Most people do not regard Chicago as better than Penn whether econ, math, or anything for that matter. Do you think people actually memorize these rankings other than CC members? No. They don’t. I know at least 20 ivy league grads (many of whom hire for big companies) and not a single cares that “Chicago has the best econ department”. Penn has the better name and there certainly are intellectuals there. </p>

<p>I am going there, and I would love to discuss “intellectual” ideas with my peers. Realize that its an ivy league school and all the kids are brilliant. These stereotypes mean nothing. Of course you will have kids talking about interesting and intellectual subjects outside of class whether its with peers or professors. Penn is a top notch university and TBH I would not turn it down for Chicago. The two simply don’t compare</p>

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<p>To each his own…certainly if the OP intends to pursue econ for the business angle, then Penn (what with the ability to supplement the education with Wharton classes) might be the better option. But, the OP A) seems to be genuinely interested in the major for what it is and B) expressed interest in an intellectual atmosphere. My point was that these are two things that Chicago is well known for and therefore it may offer a better fit to the OP. As for myself, I wouldn’t think twice about attending Penn personally. I was speaking only with regards to the temperament and interests of the OP.</p>

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<p>For what it’s worth, I am also genuinely interested in Econ. I am not going to transfer into the Wharton school, I will likely major in math and economics. I am also a BFS, and look forward to doing research in Econ to pursue my interest.</p>

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<p>I’ve known people to transfer from UChicago to Penn CAS but never the other way around.</p>

<p>Penn’s econ department may not be legendary like Chicago’s, but it is a top 10 department, and at least at the undergraduate level, it’s not going to make any difference for your future prospects in academia, business, etc. (and on the grad level, Penn still takes about 2% of all applicants)</p>

<p>PPE is a brilliant program, and while Penn definitely has no shortage of pre-professionals and party hard types, it also has more than its fair share of the intellectuals you would expect at any Ivy League school. There are amazing gatherings of intellectualism taken to an almost absurd and (consciously) self-parodying level at places like the Philomathean Society (the oldest continuously operating literary society in the country…operating longer than UChicago has been around)</p>

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<p>Excepted seems to also be a high school senior who has never spent a significant amount of time at either place, so I would take his opinions with a grain of salt. It seems like Chicago might be the better fit for you, so definitely give that a shot and if you find that the hardcore intellectualism isn’t working for you, transfer (Penn had something like a 17% transfer acceptance rate last year, which is pretty generous for transfers).</p>

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<p>The first thing my UChicago alumni interviewer did when we met was squash the idea that UChic is where fun goes to die. She said she had a great time…but that her boyfriend, who was an engineer, hated it because of his crazy workload.
She generally seemed to think that if you don’t do engineering, UChic can be pretty fun.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the responses so far! </p>

<p>My main concern right now about Chicago, actually, is that it might be so rigorous as to prevent myself from being able to actually enjoy the courses (ironic, I know). The reason is that I’m considering law school as an option, but it seems that only a very small proportion of Chicago undergrads are able to come out with a high GPA especially doing Econ. I’m not averse to hard work but I don’t want to slave and grade-grub. I don’t necessarily need intellectualism in excess (in fact abstruse pretension annoys me), so I was curious about whether Penn was more balanced.</p>

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<p>Sartorialiste - I did my undergrad at Chicago and my grad work at Penn. Actually, from what I know, Econ at Chicago is not especially hard if you have a pretty good quantitative background. Most of my friends in Econ had 3.5+ GPAs, and, as long as you have a very good LSAT score, you’d definitely be in the running for top law schools. </p>

<p>Also, I agree with the posters here that your exit opportunities from Chicago and Penn will be roughly equivalent - you won’t get a huge leg up in the working world because you did Econ/Poli Sci at Chicago rather than Penn. They are both great schools. I DO THINK, however, that your actual educational experience at the two schools will differ, especially for Econ. With all due respect to Penn’s econ dept, it simply doesn’t compare to Chicago’s dept. After getting past the intro courses, you can take courses with Stephen Levitt, Gary Becker, Kevin Murphy, all the other nobel prize winners, etc etc. I know many undergrads who did research for Levitt, and are quite involved in helping his publish his books. Point blank, for the study of econ, Chicago just provides a much better environment. </p>

<p>Now, this isn’t to say Penn wouldn’t be great too - it has a very respectable econ dept, probably one of the top ten or so in the country. It’s just not in the same league as Chicago, however. I strongly disagree with Excepted when he says “most people don’t regard Chicago as better than Penn whether Econ, math…”. Again, both schools are highly regarded and the EXIT opportunities may be similar, but in terms of the actual strength of departments, Chicago has a big edge in econ, and also an edge in poli sci, math, etc. In turn, Penn certainly has an edge in some of the sciences (biomolec stuff in particular), and a few other subjects. </p>

<p>In terms of “balance,” I do think Penn provides a more traditional college experience, but the myth of Chicago being a place “where fun comes to die” has, frankly, largely been debunked. I guess the best way to distinguish the schools though, is that, whenever I observe Penn grads meeting for the first time, they often reminisce about the social life first, parties they went to, spring fling, frats, etc., and then talk a bit about academics and (usually) their very professional pursuits. At Chicago, you talk first about academics, and the conversation flows from that to those other subjects. </p>

<p>The other posters are right, there are some cool clubs at Penn such as Philo, but when I’d describe the campus overall, I think of it as a very pre-professional place with a few pockets of true intellectualism. Penn just has a very practical vibe. At Chicago, the campus has much more of an academic feel. </p>

<p>Finally, think a bit about location too. I enjoyed my grad years at Penn, but Philly is… gritty as far as a city goes. Chicago always gave me more of that “wow big city” kind of feel. I’m a big city person, and I don’t think I would’ve enjoyed four years as an undergrad living in Philly.</p>

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<p>I’m just posting to confirm the accuracy of Cue7’s post.</p>

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<p>ya nice post cue7 – i would do chicago if i were you and sure of econ as a major… im sure u can handle the classes…</p>