<p>“Well-rounded” is misleading - these days, most schools are looking to admit “well-rounded” classes, collectively, not “well-rounded” individuals. They’d rather see passion for a single activity, rather that 17 activities with little depth - being a dilettante is not the way to get advantages in admission (but it’s a common misperception.)</p>
<p>The problem is, your “passion” needs to be unique as well - being passionate about something relatively common is no advantage - being a passionate and committed soccer player or martial artist or church volunteer won’t get you very far in admissions, those are “me too” activities, no matter how committed you are. Spend your summers leading expeditions up Mt Everest or at McMurdo station counting penguins, and you’ll get in everywhere. </p>
<p>Being passionate about ‘1’ thing in your life is a good thing - I grew up on the ‘dilettante’ end of the spectrum, and left high school not knowing what it was to be really, really good at something. But don’t try to game the system for the sake of college admissions. Follow your passions, don’t try to lead them.</p>
<p>If you want to participate in 17 different activities, so be it. Take care of your academics; after that, what a student does with their free time is <em>their</em> choice to make.</p>
<p>““Well-rounded” is misleading - these days, most schools are looking to admit “well-rounded” classes, collectively, not “well-rounded” individuals.”</p>
<p>Yes, very well put! Lop-sided individuals are often more interesting, and, collectively, make for a more interesting class.</p>
<p>I wish I had known this earlier. Now I am a junior and feel like more of a dilettante than a devoted person. I do rally enjoy all of the things that I do, but I’m sure colleges will probably see my activities as trying to be superficially “well-rounded”. I’m in the chorus, do musicals and am in an a Capella group at school as well, which seems pretty focused, but other than that I am in Spanish Club (President next year), Literary Magazine (Editor-in-Chief next year), so I feel like I should continue these rather than drop them to seem more focused. I also am on Green Club and Current events club (both only like one lunch a week) and am considering not even listing them on my app. I play sports, but more for the fun, fitness, and camaraderie than because I plan on pursuing a sport in the future. However, I am very passionate about cooking and eating locally as well. I feel like I may have spread myself too thin, but I honestly don’t do any of these to look good for colleges. I have considered staring a food club or something of that nature at school, and I am probably going to write my college essay about cooking and food as well. For those of you who have gone through the college process already, do you have any advice as to what I should do?</p>
Your assessment here was spot-on with our friend’s son. While in HS, he worked on one project with a university professor for two years, and spent a summer in Africa tracking elephants. Got in HYMB and waitlisted in P.</p>
<p>Several years ago, I heard a former admissions officer at UC Davis say, “We look for ‘angular’ students – students who have long-term, deep involvement in one or two activities. Together, angular students make up a well-rounded freshman class, which is what we want.”</p>
<p>My B+/A- student didn’t get into any Ivies, but he did get into some very good schools. He doesn’t exactly have a “passion”, but he came off as an interesting kid with a strong voice in his essays. (Only lightly edited.) </p>
<p>I have seen no real evidence that schools are rejecting kids who are using them as safeties, but I do think that some schools are looking for thoughtful responses to their supplemental essays - and too many top kids give boiler plate responses to the schools they think they don’t want to attend.</p>
<p>I do have to wonder if, in the future, we will see a change-up in terms of prestige of schools like HYP. Yes, you have to be terrific to get in there, but, at the same time, so many terrific people are rejected from those places. We can all recognize that student who gets into Cornell today would have had a darn good chance at Harvard a decade ago, and, while the peak may be wearing off over the next few years, we should never see admission to the top schools as an easy process ever again. Thus, it would seem that more and more, the people who can go out and achieve great things won’t have that Harvard or Yale degree behind them, and the relative prestige of those schools won’t necessarily be as high.</p>
<p>What is a top 50 prep school? Is that meant to be good? It sounds rather average. Increasingly average prep schools are populated by average (albeit well-to-do) kids. Colleges have cottoned on and are no longer awarding a private school premium. Private schools sometimes are viewed as disadvantageous. The world turns.</p>
<p>As to the “passion” thing, it is code for energy and drive. Is it a surprise that colleges would select for that? I think not. Being an academic slug may be necesary but it is insufficient for success. </p>
<p>The well-rounded versus focused argument is bogus.</p>
<p>In any highly competitive school the admissions people first identify the academically qualified candidates. Then the admission process becomes a subjective “community building”, (read: non-academically constructed), exercise.</p>
<p>Although I imagine that your son will have a great experience at what sounds like The Mountain School, I doubt that colleges will consider it to be anything more than an expensive deviation from regular school and not the “huge” advantage that you hope to gain. It’s great that he can do something that sounds like a lot of fun, but please don’t fool yourself into thinking that it will give him a leg up or that it will replace excellent grades and other qualifications when it comes time for college admissions.</p>
<p>Gourmetmom… You obviously have net read my previous posts and don’t get my point. My S or I could care how this looks to college admissions. He is doing this because he wants to and nothing else. He found the school on the website and was very excited about applying. It is VERY competitive. How many 15-16 year old boys do you know that would leave all their friends and family and go across the country to go to school and live on rural farm? i am proud of him for taking this risk and congratulated him on him maturity. Where he gets into college or what college admissions thinks about this is not even on our radar. THAT is the point of my whole thread. Kids who do what they want and not what they think colleges want… WOW!!! What a revelation.</p>
<p>First off, Georgetown is not necessarily a safety school, although it doesn’t surprise me that the kids with the top GPAs and less focus are being admitted there, as Georgetown has a bit of a reputation for being a school that puts a bit too much focus on grades and test scores (and, of course, any kind of Christian service). As for the idea that schools value students who do not come from privileged backgrounds, this is absolutely true and incredibly justified. The kids from the private prep schools succeed wherever they go, and those from the top are so academically and socially qualified (not to mention attuned to the college admissions process) that they are routinely admitted to the top tier of selective schools. It’s no wonder that admissions committees value the applicants who don’t have those undeserved societal advantages but still due well. Contextualized achievement is the name of the game, and rightfully so!</p>
<p>I’m going to jump in here with a plug for The Mountain School. My S did this during his junior year and it was amazing. He is now finishing his freshman year in engineering at Cornell. I truly believe TMS gave him a leg up in the admissions process although it was an unintentional consequence. He wrote his common app essay based on his experience there and had an additional letter of recommendation from his TMS advisor added to his application package. Every single college interviewer asked him about it in great depth. He cast a wide net when applying to colleges and was accepted to 14 out of 16 schools. His grades were excellent but test scores were so-so for the caliber of schools to which he applied. I believe TMS made his application pop. Kids at his prep school with similar grades but better test scores did not fare as well as he did last year. He is still very close to the friends he made at TMS. 5boys, your son will, indeed, have a wonderful experience there.</p>
<p>And this is from Princeton latest admission statistics:
Public - 59%
Independent Day - 18%
Independent Boarding - 10%
Parochial - 12%</p>
<p>2% of independent high school students capture 28% of Princeton(Same story at HMSY also) spots and you say private schools are considered disadvantageous. Beats me!</p>
<p>I did read your original post, and I can’t help but wonder if you are trying to convince yourself of something here. Perhaps I am reading between the lines, but you seem to telegraph a hope that students who don’t don’t have top notch stats can game it a bit by showing “passion.” You thought enough of the GC’s comment, …“would work out hugely in his favor when it came to admissions,” to quote the point, therefore, I would surmise that you think it means something. There is no substitute for high grades/stats - they are, in broad terms, the most important factors in college admissions. The idea that showing an unusual interest can take the place of demonstrated performance is a false hope for most students. </p>
<p>Programs such as The Mountain School are wonderful experiences for students but they don’t give them a leg up in admissions. A program that costs $22K a semester is a “pay to play” venture that is not the unique experience that may set another student above all the rest. My guess is that the kid from Nebraska who lives on a real family farm, has grown up doing the work, yet maintains top grades, etc. has the advantage. I know many students who have attended this program and others like it, and their admissions results don’t indicate that they had any advantage.</p>
<p>I have a friend who took out a loan to pay for an Ivy summer program with the hope that it would show passion and interest in the school for her son who planned to apply. She had more or less convinced herself that the program would make all the difference, even though her son’s grades and stats were below the school’s averages. He attended the course, had a great time, learned a lot, applied to the school and was denied.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose daughter did TMS as well. It fit in well with her interest in the environment. I don’t know where she was accepted, but she’s attending Barnard.</p>
<p>Gourmetmom… You have misunderstood my voice in this thread completely. I’m sorry about that. My S does have top stats, but he has no desire to go to a top 20 school. He is on scholarship at his school and did receive a huge scholarship from TMS. My S has never did any summer program that has cost anything. We totally disagree with the premise of paying to do volunteer work in another country. My S is doing a 65 mile backpack trip working on trails the entire time and it costs nothing. He is also volunteering as a staff member at the Boy Scout Jamboree, finishing his Eagle Project, getting his rescue scuba cert. and working up in the local mountains on their Search and Rescue team. He is an amazing kid in his own right and doesn’t need this supposed leg up in admissions. I was only saying what the guidance counselor told me… who buy the way used to work at Princeton in admissions, so I think she probably knows what she’s talking about. My S is actually looking at colleges as far down as tier 3… GASP!!! My point was that I was wondering, and hoping, that their would start being authentic kids out there who actually thought there was more to life then what college you go to.</p>
<p>endventure… thanks for the info about your S loving TMS. I think my S will too. He has always loved small groups and being able to form close relationships with his teachers. At his school you will usually find him hanging out with his teachers after school. He loves the outdoors and looks forward to being in actual weather… CA is pretty boring. He is especially excited about the Humanities class. It seems like a long time off, but I’m sure it will go fast. The Dean of Students at my S’s school came from Milton and knows all about it. She has told my S it will be life changing and the kids from TMS are friends for life. For some reason all of the teachers at his school are VERY excited he is going and love the idea of it. He is the first from his school to do something like this.</p>
<p>Here is what a lot of people don’t realize.
Lets take Duke. The SAT middle (50%)range of enrolled students is 1340 to 1530. (M+R) Thus if you have lets say a score of 1440 you believe that you should have an “average” chance of acceptance. (So if Duke admits 20% of all applicants then you have a 20% chance of admission) Thats why a lot of people apply. But according to the Director of Admissions of Duke here are the other factors that weigh heavily upon a decision:</p>
<p>Race
Legacy
Residency
Significant Financial support (donor)
Performing Arts
Athlete
First Gen College
ED</p>
<p>So in reality, if you do not possess any of these attributes you would need to be north of the 75th percentile (1530) to have any reasonable shot of admittance based on your academic credentials.</p>
<p>All of the applicants have great essays, interesting extras, Great GPA and Great SAT.
But quite honestly, thats not what Duke is looking for.
So if you have a 1440 SAT (or 2160 M+R+W) and have great essays, EC’s 3.8 GPA (UW)
but lack any of the aforementioned “qualities” your real odds are about 3% to 4%. If enough people understood this I wonder how many applications these “elite” schools would receive.</p>
<p>Times have changed, unless you apply ED or possess any of these “desirable traits” you are at the mercy of whimsical subjective judgement. Admission officers speak in terms of “sculpting a class” and that just adds to the randomness of the process. </p>
<p>Quite frankly its time for many people to wake up and look at a different set of priorities, because the schools they want dont really want them.</p>
Lop-sided individuals are often more interesting, and, collectively, make for a more interesting class.</p>