<p>Son declined a school, primarily based on Financial Aid, or lack thereof. Son dutifully sent in the "no thanks" card. Son got a call from the Admissions Dean, and they chatted a little. Then Son calls me at work and says the School wants to see the Financial Aid award letter from the other school. I called the Dean, and explained the situation - We had individual awards, but not the Financial Aid Package from the other school yet. Based upon the awards we knew about, the School was too expensive. I also said we returned the card because we knew the school was out of the running due to $$$'s, and we didn't want to take a seat and financial aid from another potential student.</p>
<p>This is where it got interesting.</p>
<p>He said that it is a common misconception that Son was taking a potential seat and financial aid away from someone else. He also said that they view financial aid grants more as a "discount" [vs an endowed scholarship?].</p>
<p>I said we would forward the info as soon as we get it. He said he would take it to the Dean of Financial Aid to see if there is anything else they could do.</p>
<p>Note: I'm sure that many of you can figure out which school it is, but I'd like to keep their name out of any discussion.</p>
<p>D has been told by all of her potential teachers to advise them if the award they are offering is not substantial enough. She has only got one offer on the table and she is waiting for two others before that sort of discussion begins.
I almost forgot to add, we went thru the same dance when she was up for undergrad.</p>
<p>If you are admitted to a school you really want to go to and the financial aid is insufficient, you should always talk to the admissions people before declining the offer. Based on our experience from last year, these awards are highly negotiable. It is also not uncommon for the school to ask for proof of the other offer(s).</p>
<p>I was talking with a counselor at my D’s school who specializes in scholarships and FA and she said exactly the same thing as stringfollies- in fact, it happened with her own son last year and they were able to “negotiate” a much better package from “school A”. There are a few schools who will make it very clear up front that “they do not wish to engage in monetary negotiations and that their first offer will be their best offer”, but I have also heard that is not always the case. I guess it can’t hurt to try, but wait until everything is in print and in hand.</p>
<p>If there is a grant covering tuition, be sure that the letter from the school specifies that it covers the entire tuition, not a specific dollar amount. Otherwise, when tuition rises, the grant may not.</p>
<p>Another wrinkle: if you’re accepted into a 5-year, double degree program, make sure they guarantee the financial package for the full five years.</p>
<p>I am hearing more and more that this is true of a lot of colleges at all levels. Many colleges (not all, but many) seem to be doing the same thing companies do with job offers, they offer the minimum amount they think the candidate will accept, and then if the candidate isn’t happy negotiate the amount up. The idea is obviously to ‘get the candidate as cheaply as possible’. </p>
<p>With colleges, they basically are doing the same thing with aid.With tuition being so high, most schools are being forced to offer more aid, and they are trying to keep it down, so they won’t offer what they consider the ‘limit’ in many cases.</p>
<p>There are exceptions, some schools (including some music conservatories) are notorious for giving what they will give, and that is it.But for most schools, might be worth a phone call to see if they can go any higher. And though financial aid is generally based on need alone, at least in theory, if they have a candidate they think highly of, they may be willing to be more flexible if aid is the determining factor. </p>
<p>That is what I have heard from around and about, hope it helps.</p>
<p>I was less interested in negotiation strategy than that we were not taking a spot and aid from another potential student. At one level, one student’s decision shouldn’t affect the “yields” this early in the process. At least with Financial Aid, if they knew they were not giving $x to my son, then they could reprogram the money for someone else. The fact that they treat most of it as “discounts”, rather than $'s from an aid budget, is interesting.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see how much aid is negotiable with a school when they really want your kid. I can then use that experience to negotiate with schools higher on his list.</p>
<p>My son was also able to negotiate his grants for graduate school 2 years ago, so this is not limited to undergrad.</p>
<p>In the past, a major factor had always been where you were in the relative pecking order. </p>
<p>The current economy may or may not have an effect, compounding or benefiting the issue at some institutions.</p>
<p>I came on looking for some answers about financial aid and found this thread.</p>
<p>My d (vocal perf) has been accepted at 4 colleges: Simpson College, Hartt School, U of Missouri - Kansas City, and U of NC School of the Arts. When we were at Hartt, they told all the parents “no negotiations”, what you get is what you get. </p>
<p>So far, we’ve only received our financial aid package from Simpson. That is her first choice school, but we can’t afford it even with the package. They told us there will be room for negotiation depending on what other schools offer her.</p>
<p>We are starting to get nervous about hearing from the other three schools. Even if she doesn’t get a scholarship from them, shouldn’t she at least get a basic loan package from each of them? Is anyone else still waiting to hear financial aid info from schools? What is the latest I should wait before calling and asking the schools?</p>
<p>Our FAFSA is totally skewed - my husband is self-employed and hasn’t been able to cut himself a paycheck in 3 weeks. So, I guess we’ll have to make an addendum. We just can’t afford to kick in what FAFSA says we should. These financial aid packages really will determine not where my d goes to school, but IF she goes to school. She might have to take a year and work fast food/go to community college. What a waste of talent…</p>
<p>We are waiting on financial aid packets from all of the schools that d was accepted to. We received some $ amounts with initial acceptance, but was told that the final packet will come in April.</p>
<p>Pattijoa - </p>
<p>DS applied ED to Hartt, and was told in his acceptance letter that his audition qualified him for a talent scholarship. The letter did not, however, specify an amount. We too are waiting for specific financial aid info from Hartt. </p>
<p>DS’s older brother is a Hartt alum, and he found them to be fairly generous with aid. I seem to recall a time when he asked them to review his package and they did so, upping the ante slightly. Perhaps their policy has changed? </p>
<p>I can certainly appreciate your current situation. DH lost his job two months ago and I, like your husband, run my own business. I am currently pouring virtually all of my meager profits back into the business to keep from going under. We have been asked by a couple of schools to complete a “change in circumstances” form in order to establish DS’s eligibility for more need-based aid. </p>
<p>You can file an addendum to FAFSA, but I would suggest contacting the schools and explaining your circumstances. It can’t hurt.</p>
<p>Deleted post.</p>
<p>Crossposted with RunningtheBasses. Their experience with S2 is more recent. Their S1 and my son’s were either overlapping or concurrent. The notification has changed from what I wrote.</p>
<p>Pattijoa-</p>
<p>Credit is tight these days. The only loan you can count on being offered is the Stafford Loan - $5500 for freshman, $6500 for sophomores and $7500 for juniors and seniors. These are routinely included in any package for which a merit or talent scholarship does not provide a full ride. Schools often offer a work-study component that can be worth $2000 or so a year. Beyond that, it varies a lot by the school, what they thought of your daughter’s audition relative to the competition and how much they need a particular voice or instrument. Female vocalists are never in short supply, so that will not help.</p>
<p>While nearly everyone is stunned by how high their EFC numbers are, it sounds like you may have a case to make. At this stage in the game, it is essential that you communicate directly with the financial aid officers at each college to explain and document your situation. This is crunch time for them and every day you delay means that they may have sent out offers to other candidates and hence have fewer resources at their disposal to help you. Call them first thing tomorrow.</p>
<p>If nothing works out in the end, you might consider a gap year with your daughter working to help put aside some money for another attempt next year.</p>
<p>From an instrumental standpoint, Hartt can be very generous with talent/performance scholarships. UHartford will not combine an academic merit award with a Hartt talent offer, it’s just their policy. Son got Stafford, and a Perkins, plus an SEOG grant one year, plus his talent award. We could not have done it in this economy.</p>
<p>Our older son’s package at Hartt was similar to that of Violadad’s S. Cost of attendance is pretty steep, so he did have to take out a private loans to cover some of the difference. </p>
<p>And, yes, Violadad, if your son is who I think he is, he attended Hartt with my older guy. They are, in fact, PMA “brothers”, I believe, and performed together many times in the Hartt Symphony. </p>
<p>Violason’s encyclopedic knowledge of music is astounding; he is indeed an exceptionally talented musician.</p>
<p>Would y’all suggest beginning an interesting $$$ negotiation conversation with Admissions or Financial Aid of the main University or an office within the music school itself? Is a scholarship offer for half the tuition (for example) considered low, normal or generous?</p>
<p>We conducted all merit award discussions with the music school admissions folks. Financial aid is usually concerned with the need based aid and the general admsission will defer to the music school. Unless your merit aid is academic based, too.</p>
<p>ABBeachMom I’ll agree with Singersmom07, and would address merit (talent/performance/audition) based money directly with music admissions. It’s conceivable they may refer you to Fin Aid, but in most cases, the music school will have control of the pot of talent based allocations.</p>
<p>Non-music academic merit grants/scholarships are nebulous, and it would be best to start with music admissions, particularly in an audition based or dual application school. If nothing else, they will redirect you.</p>
<p>Need based financial aid is almost always a function of being administered by the parent institution office of financial aid, but start with music admissions. </p>
<p>Some prior thoughts here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/448632-negotiate-better-scholarships.html?highlight=scholarships[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/448632-negotiate-better-scholarships.html?highlight=scholarships</a></p>
<p>As to your question as to if 1/2 tuition is normal, low, or high, it’s too school specific to peg. If a full scholarship is awarded based on talent alone, you can assume the student is among the top of the heap (at least within their instrument). This means that in all probability the student is an extremely desirable candidate. Some schools spread the money around a bit more evenly, some award lots to the top candidates, and significantly less to the average level talent.</p>
<p>Some are notoriously stingey across the board, and many awards will vary from year to year to balance instrumental, department and individual studio needs.</p>
<p>Some prior threads with both $ results and experiences.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/645690-non-need-based-scholarships-not-based-musical-talent-either.html?highlight=scholarships[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/645690-non-need-based-scholarships-not-based-musical-talent-either.html?highlight=scholarships</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/547882-re-music-scholarships.html?highlight=scholarships[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/547882-re-music-scholarships.html?highlight=scholarships</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/336764-master-list-scholarships-merit-aid.html?highlight=scholarships[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/336764-master-list-scholarships-merit-aid.html?highlight=scholarships</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/458851-music-scholarships-fall-2008-a.html?highlight=scholarships[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/458851-music-scholarships-fall-2008-a.html?highlight=scholarships</a></p>