<p>Hmm, you know the problems some districts and students are having with IB seem to be problems with the district. It doesn't seem rational to me to blame the IB program when the school district decides to eliminate AP classes after adopting an IB program. The district does not have to eliminate AP to have IB.
I'm in California. If you haven't heard about the budget mess here, allow me to assure you that it's big and real. That being said, our school district has both IB and AP classes in the high school, complimented by honors courses. And regular couses. All in high school of about 1800 to 2000 students. Each of the three high schools in the district have regular, honor and AP and one special program---MUN, IB, Tech.....you can transfer among the high schools to attend the special program you are interested in attending. There is also a successful voc tech program (the auto shop at the one high school wins all kinds of awards each year).<br>
If your district cannot manage an IB program, with transpancy, perhaps the problem is the district. Since many other districts can manage to provide all options, even with limited bugets, I don't think the IB program is the problem.</p>
<p>ObserverNY, If your passion is to inform people of the “bad” things associated with IB, you did not do your cause any benefit by inappropriately demeaning a young man who decided to be on a reality show. What on earth does this have to do with IB? That post was mean and arrogant.</p>
<p>Mom2M; your post reiterates one of my previous posts. I've seen a lot of schools and school districts that totally suck. And they don't even offer the IB program. Then I've also seen many great schools and school districts. It doesn't matter if a school offers IB, AP, standard classes, votech, etc... If the school and district; as well as the parents; aren't involved and behind the students, then any education there will be bad. If the school and district are good, then they can have any or ALL various programs available and they will do well. Anyone who believes a school or district WAS GOOD until they brought in the IB program, is simply rationalizing their school's failures in educating their children.</p>
<p>BlueHouseMom</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Again, let me preface, NOT the kid's fault.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Do tell me how that is demeaning. Rwlavalley is looking for IB graduates. You've got one now on Survivor. I didn't write the Press Release. Obviously Polk felt being an IB graduate was important to put in the article. We can watch how well the program served him in terms of being able to outwit, outplay and outlast the other players. Please don't be one of the morons who accuses me of "attacking" students. I'm really not interested.</p>
<p>Rwlavalley was looking to answer these specific questions:) Did IB help in college prep? What helped? Writing skills? Study skills?</p>
<p>2) Did you receive college credit or advancement for your IB work? Did it help you to be advanced? </p>
<p>3)Did you graduate from college? What school? Or if still in college what was your GPA after 4 semesters? </p>
<p>4)If you graduated from college, are you in a career related to your college degree?</p>
<p>5) In high school, did you take any AP exams in addition to IB exams? If so, what did you score and did you take without additional preparation? Did your school offer joint IB/AP courses?</p>
<p>6)Did you get a Diploma or only IB certificate(s)? If certificates, how many? Where? What State or Country?</p>
<p>students, and parents like afadad answered those questions. You then denigrated afadad for bragging about his kids. OP didn't ask IB graduates how they fared on reality tv shows. It is very interesting how when positive outcomes are addressed you assume bias and propaganda, and when negative you tout it as backing up your claims.</p>
<p>Yes, sure..you weren't denigrating the kid, just the program. Without IB he would have won you imply. However, the point of the article was that he was the youngest in the show's history. Not that he was an IB student, that was simply mentioned as background information.</p>
<p>Since AP is the dominant program in US schools, it's a sure bet that the majority of those that "fail" in reality shows, and even shows like Jeopardy, were students in AP high schools.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
OP didn't ask IB graduates how they fared on reality tv shows.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>So what? After what, 14 pages, rwlavalley FINALLY admitted that he is an IB ADVOCATE. He is trying to prove the "success and happiness" of IB students in college and whether they benefitted from the program, no? So here's a real live IB graduate with a face and a personality and the title of "youngest" IB player. You don't think it is relevant to watch how well he works with others? His problem solving skills? He did show compassion for the older contestant Sandy who was initially voted off. But will compassion win the day? </p>
<p>There are no press releases citing Survivor players who did AP, what stuff and nonsense. He dropped out of college to enter Survivor. OK. He can go back. It's a cool opportunity. Since the "background information" was offered presumably to impress, it is relevant.</p>
<p>Please explain why you believe AP is superior to IB? It has been discussed on College Confidential that AP gives a 5 for tests which get 67% or better. I realize that you are from NY and that math is not a strong suite for many NY financial institutes but where I went to school (not NY) 67% was failing! </p>
<p>CollegeBoard must be inflating their grades so they can get more people to and take their tests. Why don't they come clean and tell us how they score their tests....must be a NJ conspiracy? Do you know for a fact that the CollegeBoard is not taking money from foreign governments? How much does the officers of the CollegeBoard get paid? I am sure it is in the 6 $ figure range! </p>
<p>They must be a facist group and certainly unAmerican!</p>
<p>I will gladly include the IB graduate on Survivor if you can get him to answer the questions. I am sure there have never been any AP students who took a year off between high school and college to travel. They must be total failures and influenced and damaged by AP.</p>
<p>Don't you see how silly your arguments are?</p>
<p>I am first a dedicated statistician and don't distort the truth of research I do. I randomly selected people who said they had finished an IB program. I had no idea whether they were happy with it or not. I could have gotten a list of students from IB coordinators and let them cherry pick their lists but I didn't. I got my sample off of social networking sites after you insisted on destroying this forum to spew your "opinions". I would have reported the results whether it was postive or not. Unlike you, I am open to the truth. You do not seem to believe that IB can be positive for anyone...they are brainwashed! I have had experience with both AP and IB through my children. I am also an ADVOCATE for AP! Both are excellent programs. They are different. One is a college prep program and one is a college credit program. See after 18 pages, I am admitting to be an advocate for AP. Unlike you, I can take research and report the truth and not distort it. If AP students would answer the post I made on CC, I would report that. But I have found on social networking sites that people will not even admit they take AP. Hmmm, that says something right there!</p>
<p>I realize that is hard for you to understand since you are a realtor who has to distort stuff to sell houses and get people into mortgages they can't afford.</p>
<p>rwlavalley; I had a few minutes today prior to picking up my son for the 3 day weekend. I decided to test Observer's theory; which I know is a crock; about the transparency of the IB program. While I agree that each school is different; with or without the IB program; Observer is convinced that the IB program in and of itself is non-transparent, secretive, and evil. Anyway, I called my son/daughter's high school that they graduated from and asked for the IB department. As soon as I said hi and said my name, the first thing out of the secretary's mouth was; "How's your son doing in College?" Anyway; I asked her if she knew how many of the IB graduates this past year received their IB diploma. She said sure, hold on a second.</p>
<p>She said that there were 17 students who were in the IB program in their senior year. "We don't have a very big school; ENTIRE graduating class was only right at about 400." While she was looking, the IB coordinator jumped on the line just to say hi. Anyway, she told me that of the 17 graduates this past year, that 13 received the IB diploma. That's 76.47%. With a low population, percentages change a lot with 1 more or less. Anyway, that's the percentage. </p>
<p>Now; before Observer jumps in and talks some trash mouth about how I HAD TO CALL to get the information; before hanging up, the coordinator as well as the secretary said (Without me asking); if you need a hard copy of that, it was in the school district's quarterly newsletter that came in the mail to you. If you don't have a copy or threw it away, we can get you another copy. I said no thanks, just curious of the number.</p>
<p>Now I'm sure that Observer will post some crap trying to rationalize her position. Maybe the 76.47% isn't that high. But considering that the national average of high school kids graduating school AT ALL is barely scratching the 70% mark nationally; I can live with 13 out of 17 students receiving the IB diploma. The other 4 by the way did receive college credit from our state university. All 17 IB students were obviously accepted to colleges/universities. 1 is doing church missionary work in Ireland, so his college plans are on hold for this year. 3 of the IB graduates (Who also received their diploma) are receiving NO college credit for their classes. BUT THIS IS ACCEPTABLE, because all 3 are going to Top universities in the country; (Two are in the TOP 10) and these schools give NO CREDIT FOR AP OR IB!!!! Of the remaining 13 students, I know of 3 that are going to the state university and the diploma is giving them their ENTIRE FRESHMAN YEAR. (30 credits). 2 others are going to the state university but didn't get the diploma. They are getting between 10-18 credits. The other 8 I have been told are attending college, but I don't know exactly where (All out of state). I don't know how much credit if any they are receiving.</p>
<p>Anyway; for those who believe the IB program is all secretive and non-transparent, you are definitely over generalizing. And you don't understand that educational programs are only tools of a school. If your school isn't providing information on the IB program or some similar curriculum or activity; chances are that the problem is WITH THE SCHOOL and not the program. From what rwlavalley posted from the IB website and from what I've learned at my kid's school; there is nothing being hidden by the program. Observer, I think some of your sources need to get their facts straight before you drink their cool-aid and believe everything you read. Especially when so much of it is incorrect.</p>
<p>ObserverNY wrote...."personality and the title of "youngest" IB player. </p>
<p>Your "points" are getting beyond ridiculous. First he wasn't youngest "IB player" he was the youngest player period, unless you are saying the rest are IB graduates, he can't be the youngest IB one. The background information used to impress was "youngest" not IB. No one in the article discussed IB other than to name his high school. The article emphasized his age. They only mentioned his high school because of his age, i.e. no resume to speak of other than he graduated from high school.</p>
<p>And, graduates of AP schools haven't been mentioned simply because past and other current contestants have more on their resume that would be highlighted on the show, because they are all OLDER no need to go back and discuss that they went to a particular high school when they have a career or had recently graduated from a particular college.</p>
<p>rwlavalley,</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
How much does the officers of the CollegeBoard get paid? I am sure it is in the 6 $ figure range!
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, I DO KNOW how much the CEOs of the College Board and ETS make, $650,000 and $800,000 respectively. Now, you ready? HOW MUCH DOES THE DIRECTOR GENERAL OF IBO MAKE? What's that? Don't know? Can't find it anywhere?</p>
<p>I have been asking that question for four years. I even e-mailed Jay Mathews and asked him to ask his good buddies at IBNA to answer the question for him. Wanna know what response IBNA gave Mr. Mathews? "We don't make that information public".</p>
<p>3321</p>
<p><em>IB</em> should not have been in front of the word <em>player</em>, I had typed something else, deleted it and forgot to take out the IB. Sue me.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
They only mentioned his high school because of his age, i.e. no resume to speak of other than he graduated from high school.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Nooooo, he was a student at U of Miami, on crew in fact. He didn't take a year off between HS and college as rwlavalley suggests. He dropped out of college to go on Survivor. There were quite a few 21 and 22 yr. olds in the past and I would think his younger age would be an advantage for him. </p>
<p>afadad,</p>
<p>400 kids per grade? That's a big high school, mine has roughly 150-160 per graduating class. And out of the 400 kids, 13 earned the IB Diploma. That's 3%. And that's not crap. If you think spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on 3% of a high school population is a wise expenditure of taxdollars, well, then that's what you think. I don't think it is a wise expenditure. </p>
<p>Realize as one of the parents of IB graduates, you are considered "one of the good guys". I guarantee you if someone from your local press contacted your district for the information, the response would be very different. Most districts have a person in charge of dealing with the press. That person would have to field the question through the proper district channels. All sorts of red flags would go up because districts NEVER like to be questioned about their IB program by the press or anyone they could immediately tag as a "hostile" because they can't control what the press will do with the data. Nevertheless, I commend you for taking the initiative to provide this forum with the exact numbers, thank you.</p>
<p>At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, why do you think IB costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for one high school? Allow me to assure you that it doesn't in our high school...there isn't that kind of money avaliable for anything. (Yes, I've seen the budgets, no I can't get to them--that room is being painted and everything is taped off.)
Our district, school, principal, counselors, and IB co ordinator are quite happy to answer any question in any format. They just spent time answering all kinds of questions, in a public forum, at one of the middle schools and they are getting ready to do it all over again at the remaining schools. In case anyone missed the information, they also do it all again at parent night for incoming freshman. For all the programs---everything from Athletics to Vo-tech. Really, your problem seems to be a problem district or a group of problem districts, not a problem program. If you can't get information from your school district on any topic, you should see red flags....about the district.</p>
<p>Mom2M,</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
why do you think IB costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for one high school?
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>With all due respect, because it does. In Wake County, NC, where they play ping-pong with their IB magnet programs, the estimated cost to close down one magnet and open another is almost $4 MILLION DOLLARS! WakeEd</a> - IB timelines | newsobserver.com blogs </p>
<p>My own district has played games with the IB budget from day one. Initially, it was listed as costing $100,000. That year, the budget was voted down so before putting it up for a 2nd vote, the BoE cut that figure to $60,000. The following year, the district got smart and "unbundled" the figure for IB by creating it's own Code in the budget and spreading it all around. Conveniently, the budget didn't reflect past expenditures because it was a newly created Code. Also conveniently, the district didn't assign the new Code to stipends for the IB Coordinators and those salaries were buried elsewhere.</p>
<p>You are of course, correct about my district in general. As a local reporter, I expose them constantly on the Board's total disregard for parliamentary procedure and deliberate hiding of information. I keep a stack of blank FOILs at home for whenever I need to see actual documents. Most recently, I FOILed the district's financial report. The district forced me to wait 30 days before handing it over, and now I know why. In not one, but two audits, the district was found to be holding MILLIONS in taxdollars in violation of State maximums. Before running my story, my editor and I tried to get comment from the district, wanting to allow them a defense. The district refused. Now they are scrambling before the May budget vote to put out propaganda about what I exposed to counteract my article, which they claim no one reads anyway. Our district currently spends $30,500 per student. Imho, that is an outrageous number.
The</a> Leader Newspaper</p>
<p>One more observation - sure your district is "answering questions" NOW. Your district bought the cow. Now it has to sell IB to as many students and parents as it can to justify it. How many public information sessions were there BEFORE your district started spending money on application to IBO?</p>
<p>Again, you have a school district which you are unhappy with. I do not have the same problem with our school district. I have the budget figures for both the IB and AP programs for our school district. I have the cost for testing, adminstration, and training for both programs. I have done the analysis. I can assure you the costs are not as high as you think. I have figured out what are the cost differences and if anyone want to know the truth they can figure it out. It certainly did not cost $4M as you suggest or as the blog costs. </p>
<p>I have not felt it necessary to research the IBNA salaries....not sure why it is relevant. Salaries of executives in general are ridiculuous as evidenced by what the CollegeBoard pays their executives. Let me see it takes how many students taking APs at roughly $75 per test to pay those salaries or how many students taking SATs at $45 per test to pay for those tests. The CollegeBoard is a monopoly.</p>
<p>I also see you can't answer the question of a 5 on the AP test starting at 67%.</p>
<p>Or is it you won't answer it because it would reveal that you only use facts when they are supportive of your opinion.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? This is an absolute news to me. Do you have any links available?
Is it across the board, in every subject?</p>
<p>Here is some data provided by AP graduates who have responded:</p>
<p>"I took 13 APs (with mostly 5's) and my freshman GPA sucked ass.. in college, you are no longer filling in bubbles. You actually have to study for stuff."</p>
<p>"I received placement, not credit-- i.e. I didn't have to retake courses I had "taken" due to APs, but I didn't get credit towards graduation for any APs. 3) I'm a senior graduating in May at Brown University studying chemistry. Overall APs are a joke in terms of preparing you for the difficulty of college work, in my experience, but if that level of content wasn't available I would be even worse off. APs are just not hard enough and the exams are not designed like a typical college exam is (for practical reasons) and courses are not taught like college courses so the result is not anything near mimicry of college work."</p>
<p>"AP exams are much easier to do "very well" on than actual college courses, IMO. They require less work to study for, and the multiple-choice format is a much easier one to tackle than the short-answer format most of my professors prefer. In my experience, the essays and short-answers on the test were limited and it was possible to miss them and still do well. (On the other hand, I like the freedom that the sheer amount of credit I have gives me in choosing my courses.)"</p>
<p>"I guess it depends on the school but don't think that you are going to get an easy A in Organic Chemistry or Multivariable Calculus simply because you got a 5 on AP Chem and AP Calc BC.. hopefully, you won't be as arrogant in this regard as I was."</p>
<p>"The APs helped somewhat in college work, but not that much; college work is just on a higher level. There were two things I noticed, however. I took AP Bio and we actually took the time to do all the labs. My intro bio class in college rehashed several of the same labs and used some of the same lab techniques. Some of the kids in class had also taken AP Bio but their schools hadn't done any of the labs, so they were kind of lost, while I had a leg up." </p>
<p>There is not enough yet to provide a good sample but so far, AP is not showing very well.</p>
<p>Kelowa.</p>
<p>I found the reference to AP scores on College Confidential. I searcahed on CC and found a thread which dated back to 2006 which referenced it. I don't know if it is true or not. I am sure ObserverNY knows but unwilling to tell us.</p>
<p>I am sure that my district is answering the questions - unlike you who is not answering the question about AP tests! I can read budgets and I do ask questions which I get answers. If their answers are not consistent with the budget, I get more information and ask again. But again, I am not interested in tearing down a school district but building it up from where it is at. I am sure you don't get much cooperation because of your tactics as you have demonstrated on this forum.</p>
<p>If your school district has an average cost of over $30K per student, which I doubt is true, then you have a problem. We don't spend 1/8 that per student in our school district. You have given me more reason not to move to Long Island, not that I would do it anyway.</p>