International Baccalaureate College Graduates

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You mean those who don't like IB shouldn't be allowed to post here?? And only those who do like IB should be allowed to post??

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Not at all, if it's a courteous and rational discussion. But I'm a conservative/republican/Christian with a kid in IB. I did a ton of research and became acquainted with the anti-IB underbelly. That sub-set personifies every ugly stererotype about the right and there is no rational discussion possible. The question is whether to continue a thread that's clearly degenerated beyond its usefulness. I don't think so.</p>

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In our school, there were 17 students (seniors) in the IB program. Of those; 13 got the diploma.

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<p>I'd question an optional (not state- or Federally-mandated) program that was serving only 17 students, certainly, and so much the worse if only 13 students were deemed "successful" at it by getting the diploma. Wouldn't matter if the program were IB, AP, Cambridge, or whatever.</p>

<p>In fact, this is one of the reasons I question IB in the local high school which offers it. There are NO diploma students coming out of the program. Money is very tight in my district, and I think for what IB costs, the funds could be spent more wisely. </p>

<p>Some classes must be larger to accommodate classes with under 20 students. Those 17 students have, what, SIX classes that only they can take? That would have an impact on class sizes for numerous other classes.</p>

<p>The majority of a small minority is still a small number.</p>

<p>3321, the stated purpose of the thread -- to collect stats from IB graduates -- cannot be achieved on this board, as became obvious even to the OP. There simply aren't enough IB grads who frequent this PARENTS' board to make data collection possible. The OP realized this, searched elsewhere for the population needed, and found it.</p>

<p>"3321, the stated purpose of the thread -- to collect stats from IB graduates -- cannot be achieved on this board, as became obvious even to the OP. There simply aren't enough IB grads who frequent this PARENTS' board to make data collection possible. The OP realized this, searched elsewhere for the population needed, and found it."</p>

<p>I suggested to the OP to post elsewhere when the thread first started, suggesting the college life thread, and perhaps she did so. However, the true reason she couldn't collect that data on this thread wasn't limited to being in the parents forum, it changed when ObserverNY started posting and got off track. Parents were posting about their children specific to the OPs questions, until they felt they had to respond to Observer's posts.</p>

<p>I am just stunned by the amount of people who are supposedly intelligent folks, but willing to buy into a program that openly states a goal that is counter to our form of government, and willing to pay extra for it as well. </p>

<p>It is bad enough we had Goals 2000 forced upon us by the feds... but then... everything they do to teachers is forced... Do you think a teacher who needs his or her job is going to go against teaching things they have been ordered to? Everything that happens in schools today is predetermined by reformers and consultants who come in an 'retrain' you to be agents of change. Now where have you heard THAT before? They even promise the results you want, in other words, they make the teachers THINK they had a say in what is taught and how, but the conclusion is foregone. It is called the Delphi Technique. Please look it up. I was one that disrupted it and that didn't get me any points. I was ready to retire but most teachers are not so they must pretend to drink the koolaid...it's one huge psychological experiment.</p>

<p>By the way, they dumped Cardiff because it was not multicultural enough -- it was too 'white'. How's that for blatant racism?</p>

<p>I have read this whole thread and not only has ObserverNY brought MUCH compelling information to this debate, with proof on paper, and in their own words, she is probably the most brilliant scholar of the IBO, having researched every aspect of it, that I have ever read.</p>

<p>For one thing, if this stuff is so on the up and up, why do school boards sneak it in like they did in my district, without much discussion or parental input? My school district started it in 2008 and are just having an informational session on it NOW. Thank God the parents will arrive with pitchforks after having looked over some of the IBO materials, tests and such.. There is a WEALTH of information at IBO/UNESCO's own sites as to the agenda. Surely you can read it for yourself. Accusing ONY of 'conspiracy' theories is a hollow charge.... she is objecting to the sames things I am, things I have seen from the organization itself...available to anyone willing to do a little digging on the IBO/UNESCO websites.</p>

<p>IB supporters are always full of themselves. Somehow a program taught by elitists produces more elitists as well as attracts other elitists as supporters...they are duped by their own egos.</p>

<p>As for the cult accusation, any organization that sells you a curriculum and also asks you to sign various mission statements that are decidedly political are indeed bordering on a cult.</p>

<p>Let me ask you this: Do you think it appropriate that a teacher must sign a compact that states he or she agrees to teach the 'mission and goals of world government'? I don't.</p>

<p>AND I REFUSED. I just offered anyone who taught with me to produce that contract and I would pay them $500. I did not keep a copy of it, because as soon as I got it I called a meeting and told them DO NOT SIGN. We ended up not having to sign, so at the time I never though to keep a copy but it so damning, I wish I had it now. My offer of $500 still stands if any of my former colleagues are reading this.</p>

<p>People are often asked to uphold the Constitution when sworn into office, but asking someone to uphold the UDHR -- ABOVE IT, is what is being done with this stuff. Why is this necessary?</p>

<p>Even without IB, Goals 2000 has a similar mission - to change schools into breeding grounds for social activists...even some of our GOP presidents have said we will someday, if things go their way, pledge allegiance to the UN... who dearly wants to be our government, our only government. That is how NGO's operate, and education is the way to reach almost 100% of the population in order to further their goals. This has been going on since John Dewey and it's been a slow process up to now. However, now that people are accepting world government without question, we are experiencing a 'quickening'...</p>

<p>They are not even afraid to admit their agenda any longer.</p>

<p>If you are afraid of 'nationalism' in the sense you don't think we should stick with our own Constitution, which is the only document that guarantees our rights, I feel sorry for you.. for your own education has been lacking. That to me is the scary thing. I think ONY said it well in post #96.</p>

<p>And on top of it, insult to injury is that we have to pay for this nonsense, to pledge allegiance to some foreign entity that wishes to be a government? Forget it!</p>

<p>And of course newspapers are all glowing about IB -- they are fully invested in this world government idea, as they have been bought and paid for since 1925...</p>

<p>As for the pennies in the milk cartons, they are doing worse than this now. Instead of being in school, kids are being brought to protest the war, or to protest anti-abortion protesters, or collect money for a school in a foreign country, or put on a bus to go see a certain presidential puppet speak.</p>

<p>How dare they.</p>

<p>Believe me, where I taught, it's been this way since 1980.. their way or the highway.</p>

<p>I could afford to take the highway but others can't. I have had people tell me their kids quit teaching after they saw what a politically charged HELL it was.</p>

<p>Some of you are so de-sensitized by what has been going on for so long, you don't even know you are biased.</p>

<p>The corruption and failure of our educational system was never more evident than this past election when voters had no idea who controlled congress or that socialism was not equal to capitalism or even the difference between the two or what the role of government ought to be.</p>

<p>But as I said, that is the goal here and the captive audience is the key to who controls us ultimately.</p>

<p>I leave you with these quotes from some very famous people, some Democrats, some Republicans, but all elitists... who have bought into the 'agenda'. Read them carefully.
They will hopefully show you why the press is biased, that the goal was always socialism/communism, the UN is not about peace, and there is no longer a two-party system, with one party wanting to protect the 'republic'.</p>

<p>"Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government will adopt to further the cultural revolution are...[a] National Department of Education...the studies will be revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and other features of the bourgeois ideology. The students will be taught the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism, internationalism and the general ethics of the new Socialist society."</p>

<p>*****--William Z. Foster, Toward Soviet America, 1932 National Chairman of the American Communist Party (1933-44, 1945-57)</p>

<p>“It might be tempting to leave the economic and social issues to others, there is now the challenge of economic and social crisis, which really means the challenge of globalization and the global governance. Unless we tackle the underlying distortions and imbalances in the global economy, unless we start the kind of global governance that is needed, we must expect more [political and military] conflicts and even more intractable ones. Economic and political security are closely interconnected.”</p>

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<li>Kofi Annan, Secretary-General UN December 14, 1998 Year-End Review</li>
</ul>

<p>In 1991, George Bush, Sr. said, "My vision of a New World Order foresees a United Nations with a revitalized peacekeeping*function." In 1992, he said, "It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance."</p>

<p>"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." </p>

<p>-- David Rockefeller... Baden-Baden, Germany 1991</p>

<p>In the April, 1974 edition of the CFR publication, "Foreign Affairs," Columbia University Professor and CFR member Richard Gardner wrote a column entitled, "The Hard Road to World Order." In it, he called for "an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece." He named the following organizations that would help fulfill that objective: the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), the Law of the Sea Conference, the World Food Conference, the World Population Conference, and of course, the United Nations. *</p>

<p>zoosermom - calling us looney tuneys is hardly rational and courteous of you... because our views are opposed to yours.</p>

<p>Let us hope they will be thought provoking enough to at least be remembered when the time comes that you might even have an epiphany.</p>

<p>I do not have a job promoting IB. I have a passion to promote advanced academic programs which means both IB and AP and even AICE.ere I think schools should bring back honors classes if they have been removed. I think teaching to the mediocre standard that US education has become was a mistake and that any program that lifts US education beyond its mediocre existence is a step in the right direction. I think the No Child Left Behind initiative of our previous president was a mistake. One school in Colorado was penalized when its students went from 98% passing one year to 96% passing. </p>

<p>I started this thread to collect data on a subject that IBO does not do a good job in reporting...College preparedness. They report a study in Canada. There are numerous studies from individual colleges. All say the same thing. Every IB school has stories from their graduates but I have not found a good study on college preparedness.
I started this thread on the parents forum so that I could get graduates perspective....after all IB is 40 years old and some parents might have been through it. I put the questions on this type of forum because I did not want the "hand picked" or "cherry picked" people that could come from the IB schools. I was not looking to taint the study.</p>

<p>I would argue your points but I see you have only posted 6 times and it is likely you are not a teacher at all but another of ObserverNY's many different names. Your arguments do not hold water with anyone who has experienced it. I now have 125 IB graduates who have responded to my original questions and they tell a much different story. I have graduates from as far back as 1981 to last year. They tell the same story. IB prepared them for college.</p>

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zoosermom - calling us looney tuneys is hardly rational and courteous of you... because our views are opposed to yours.

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You don't know what my views are of the IB program. You just know that I think this thread has outlived its usefulness. Note the difference.</p>

<p>I am sorry if that does not support your opinion but these respondents provided answers to the questions I asked.<br>
As far as the new world order government, I have sat in a number of IB classes and I have never heard once talk of that subject. But I have seen young people being taught to think and analyze what they are being presented. And yes, even question what they are taught. If you are indeed a teacher or better yet were a teacher, you would be proud of the students who are learning this way. If you have never sat in a IB class, you have no knowledge of what I am talking about.</p>

<p>I agree that this thread has outlived its usefulness. I recommend that we let ObserverNY and Teacher35 discuss their opinions and I will do what I can to get the thread shut down with CC. I do not see the moderator to report it but will figure it out.</p>

<p>In the meantime, it is probably wise not to respond to their posts. Again, if anyone wants to get access to the research I have done, please send me a note. I will reply as I have to several already.</p>

<p>rwlavalley,</p>

<p>Clearly, Teacher35 is not me. For you to even suggest that I am posting under a different alias is both paranoid and disingenuous. The difference in our writing styles should be apparent to a 3rd grader. </p>

<p>afadad,</p>

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I thought you said that the teachers were all for it and it was the school's conspiracy to hide it all from the citizens.

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<p>No, I did not. YOU stated that the NEA was opposed to IB and I asked you to back that up as I had never seen an official NEA statement to that effect. In the future, please try to remember what YOU wrote.</p>

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I'm a liberal, and not afraid to have my ideas/biases/opinions questioned!

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<p>And one of the few Liberals I have ever met who can discuss an issue without name-calling and rude behavior. To me, Owlice represents the original definition of a Liberal as exhibited by Jesus, not the modern day Liberal who is a Kool Aid drinking Socialist.</p>

<p>Teacher; you say you are stunned. Well I am EQUALLY stunned that we have teachers like you in our children's lives. I am so thankful that our teachers aren't like that. By chance, are you really involved with the teacher's union? NEA? If yes, then I already know the rest of the answers to the questions I was going to ask, so I won't ask.</p>

<p>Owl; please tell me you can read. I may be long winded, but I am usually quite explicit. We were talking about the IB diploma. How in the hell can a junior, sophomore, or freshman receive the IB diploma? Are you following where I'm going with this? Let me make it simple. The IB program in our school does NOT just serve 17 students. Please tell me you just misspoke. Of a school population of approximately 1200 (10th-12th) and ONLY IB in 9th grade (The rest of 9th grades are in middle school); the IB program serves about 100-120 students. There is an average of about 50 in the 9th grade. After that, some decide it's not for them. 10th grade has about 30. 9th and 10th grade for IB is considered "PRE-IB". That is required if you want to do the IB program and diploma program in 11th-12th grades. Being many students/parents aren't sure if it's for them or not, it is common to have more in 9th-10th than in 11th-12th. In 11th-12th there is usually close to 20 students. For a population of approximately 1200 in the entire school, IB makes up about 10% of the school. That's also about the percentage of athletes; different band/orchestra; and other activities/programs.</p>

<p>The fact that any student can get into the Pre-IB program in 9th grade, and can go back to traditional classes if it doesn't work out for them or is not the type of education they want/need; says so much for the program and very little about the conspiracy theorists who believe it's goal is to indoctrinate all our children into running the new world order. The fact that not everyone in the school attempts it or finishes it is ALSO IN LINE with AP and Honors classes. Sorry, but the arguments are getting very weak. They either are pure opinion/conjecture or strictly a conspiracy theory. There is absolutely nothing wrong with ensuring that the world is an educated place. No where in the IB or UNESCO charter/beliefs do I see the goal as to destroy democracy, any republics, or in any way create a one world government.</p>

<p>But Owl; as I mentioned, the original poster asked about GRADUATES of the IB program and how many got the diploma and their success/failure in continued education or work force. And how they believe the IB program may or may not have had an affect; negative or positive; on that outcome. </p>

<p>Yes, it looks like IB parents/students are big supporters. Would you expect differently? We can ONLY base our opinions on HARD FACTS AND TRUTHS! I.e. How did it affect my children? We know how the kids are doing and that is what we base our opinion on. Are there students who started the IB program and didn't finish? Of course there are. Are there students who took AP classes and didn't finish? Of course there are. Are there IB students who did the program and DIDN'T get the diploma? Of course there are. Are there students who took AP exams and didn't score high enough to get college credit? Of course there are. Is the IB program a good program for a student with an average GPA of around 2.5? Probably not. Is taking a full course load of AP classes a good program for a student with an average GPA of around 2.5? Probably not. </p>

<p>Sorry; but you really have to tell me again why the IB program is so evil. And while you're at it, please tell me why the AP classes are SO MUCH BETTER. Because I haven't heard ONE PARENT, STUDENT, or PROPONENT of the IB program on this forum say that the IB program was BETTER than any other program. That ALL STUDENTS should be in it. Or that ALL students were suppose to get the diploma and college credit. Yet so many anti-IB folks here criticize the program because NOT EVERY student is in it; because NOT EVERY student that is in it received the diploma; and that NO EVERY student who starts it finishes it. WOW!!! Sounds like the AP classes to me!!!!</p>

<p>Afadad, if you ever have some time on your hands and want to do some research, you will find, as I did, that the most zealous opponents of the IB program are almost evangelical in their point of view. Like a religious extremism. I'm not saying that's true of the posters here because I don't know, but there surely is such a subgroup. They see the IB program as the frontline of an attempt to destroy America and Christianity. Hard as heck to argue with that.</p>

<p>ObserverNY wrote:"And one of the few Liberals I have ever met who can discuss an issue without name-calling and rude behavior. To me, Owlice represents the original definition of a Liberal as exhibited by Jesus, not the modern day Liberal who is a Kool Aid drinking Socialist."</p>

<p>LOL, LOL truly too funny. You are praising someone for not calling others names, and then proceed to call liberals (modern day ones?) Kool aid drinking socialists...truly, do you think about what you are posting?</p>

<p>Then I'd like to know how I fall into the pro-IB category. I'm a HARD-LINE conservative; I think Ronald Regan was one of the BEST presidents ever. I listen to Rush, Hannity, Levin, and many other right wing talk show conservatives. I am against MOST of the liberal biased media. I think people like Chris Mathews and such are the ones who want a socialist world. I am a "Born again Christian". And my list can go on with stereotypes. By the way; I am not DISSING any of the "Left" that doesn't agree with my religion, politics, or philosophy. BOTH Pro-IB or Con-IB. And of course; I expect Observer and some others to say that I'm NOT REALLY a conservative or christian. But zoose; I do agree with you that some opponents are extreme to the point that they've made it political. If you're Pro-IB then you're a far left liberal who wants a 1 world government and to destroy our constitution and the American Way of life. And if you're Con-IB, then you are a good god fearing conservative republican christian who believes in the American way of life. Well; this isn't the first time that such people have given conservative republican christians a bad name and have made us ashamed to be associated with them. Then again; if I'm not mistaken, the KKK is a conservative right wing republican christian sect of society too. But I guess I'm not a REAL CHRISTIAN being I think the IB program is good FOR SOME STUDENTS. Just like the AP classes are good for SOME STUDENTS. And the honors classes are good FOR SOME STUDENTS. And traditional classes are good FOR SOME STUDENTS. I guess I'm going to hell.</p>

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I guess I'm going to hellp.

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I'll bring the marshmallows. </p>

<p>I could have written your post.</p>

<p>3321,</p>

<p>There's a big difference between calling someone a name PERSONALLY and characterizing a label/ideology such as Liberal, as a Kool Aid drinking Socialist. Left-wing. Extreme Left. Socialist. Those who subscribe to those political ideas don't like being told what they are. Too bad. Ironically, they think calling someone like myself a right-wing Christian fundamentalist is not the least bit insulting, but rather a clarifier that a person of THAT sort of political persuasion is to be scorned and dismissed. No one gave the Left an exclusive on the First Amendment in this country. At least not yet.</p>

<p>Ironically, you feel the same way about "modern day liberals"..that they are THAT sort of political persuasion and should be scorned and dismissed</p>