International kid here. Do I have a shot? (and does ED help at all?)

<p>**2300+ SAT, 750+ on SAT subject exams</p>

<p>99.5+ ATAR, no GPA or class rank available (but this ATAR = top 0.5% in state)</p>

<p>Superb teacher and counselor recommendations</p>

<p>Some Bs and Cs (in geography and sport, both of which I am no longer doing) in report with a legitimate reason for them (financial difficulty, family death)</p>

<p>Very strong leaving exam taken in year 10, which is standardised </p>

<p>Amazing essays and short answers**</p>

<p>ECs:
**
School newspaper that was nearly dying that I 'revived', and managed to quadruple participation rates (editor in chief)</p>

<p>School band for two years (flutist and pianist)</p>

<p>Volunteering at a church for mentally disabled people (was a buddy to two guys)</p>

<p>World Vision & Sponsoring Club at school, where we try to raise money to sponsor children from third world countries (senior member)</p>

<p>School outreach/community service club that raises money, awareness etc for cancer council, visiting nursing homes, sending money overseas to third world countries etc (senior member) </p>

<p>*NGO-registered charity that is focusing on building a school in a third world country by getting donations, fundraising and enticing sponsors (co-founder and co-president) </p>

<p>*Self-published author</p>

<p>Summer research at a university in my future major in college*I'll also be applying to Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Yale and Cornell, since they're all need blind even to internation students, but Yale is my dream school. I've got a sweet spot for Dartmouth and Cornell (heard some really nice things about them, first impressions good, blah blah) but Dartmouth, I hear, is incredibly selective and tiny. :/ </p>

<p>Some more details copy+pasted from another thread:</p>

<p>I'm the only person in my school who is applying for Ivy league schools, so I don't have anyone to compare against; and everyone who is on CC seems to be so amazingly qualified at pretty much everything. I feel totally lacking and inadequate in comparison to those varsity sporty guys, international science olympiad champions and presidents of ten different clubs or something. I'm just...ordinary, you know? :/</p>

<p>My grades aren't great either. Although we don't have GPAs or class ranks in Australia (and so I won't be submitting them) we ARE required to provide a complete secondary school report... and I'm terrified that this will bring me down enormously. </p>

<p>Year 9: 5 As, 4 Bs (science, geography, sports, commerce) and 6As, 3Bs in final report (history, geography, sport)</p>

<p>Year 10: 6As, 2Cs (sport, geography) and 6A, B (geography) and C (sports)</p>

<p>Year 11: 5As, 2Bs (English Extension, Maths Extension) and 6As, B (history)</p>

<p>I haven't gotten my year 12 report yet, but I know that they'll be straight As this time (both midyear and final) - but I'm wondering whether my Bs and Cs have ruined my chances at Yale completely. </p>

<p>I do have a legitimate justification for my poor grades. My father was diagnosed with terminal cancer at the start of year 9; I spent the entirety of year 9 and 10 spending time with him and helping out in the house (my mother was his caretaker, and they both stopped working, so we were tight on money) After he passed away in the middle of year 10, our financial security plummeted, as my mother went back to school to provide a better life for us and thus had no income. I started working part time to lessen the burden on her. </p>

<p>Another worry is the fact that I don't have any remarkable awards that are worthy of mention, apart from an academic award in history and maths a couple of years ago, and a school-issued Gold Award that can be obtained by being an active participant in every facet of school life.</p>

<p>In Sydney, we do a standardised test called School Certificate at the end of year 10 which is state-wide and tests students on materials from the past two years. I did well in it, with scores of: English (97), maths (96), computing skills (99), history (97), science (94) and geography (90). As an international student, I'm required to submit this result...this is one of the few good things about my academic record. :/</p>

<p>The final university entrance exam is sat after year 12, and is once again, state-wide. The final score we receive is called an ATAR, and has a maximum possible mark of 99.95. The catch about an ATAR, though, is that it's a RANK against the state, not your real grade. It increases in increments of 0.05, which represents 50 people. This means that 50 people who receive 99.95, the maximum ATAR, are literally the fifty strongest students in the state. My school, which is one of the hardest schools in state, always produce at least two kids who get 99.95. </p>

<p>I'm expecting an ATAR of anywhere between 99.1 to 99.85 which is basically being in the top <1% of Sydney. Were I to remain in Australia, this ATAR would be enough to get me into virtually any undergraduate courses, including law and medicine, at any university, especially since we don't look at high school GRADES here when being considered for university admissions. I know that a girl a couple of years ago who got 99.95 got into Harvard...but I'm afraid that Yale will place greater importance on high school grades and disregard my ATAR, or hold it in equal regards. </p>

<p>My year 12 report will also have my individual ranks in each subject, which is NOT looking good for me. I know that I'll get an A, but my rank itself won't be that great. In my defence, I go to one of the hardest, most academically rigorous high schools in the state, if not the country (my high school is in the top 5 schools in Sydney) where around a third of the kids get into undergraduate medicine, law, etc...but even then, I'm scared that my ATAR won't play big enough a factor for Yale, because of my past grades and ranks within the school.</p>

<p>I'm almost certain that both teacher recommendations will be splendid, however. I'm planning to ask my English and physics teacher, as English is my best subject, and my
physics teacher sees me as very enthusiastic and diligent. The counselor recommendation will also be pretty strong. </p>

<p>The essays will probably be the best parts of my application. My other English teacher has commented that I write at a grad school level and has said that I (and my writing) "have brilliance," and writing is certainly the strongest talent that I have. (although that doesn't seem very evident when rereading this extremely long post...)</p>

<p>No one’s gonna read through all that. Seeing your initial stats - I’d say you have a good chance at most places(including Dartmouth). So go ahead and apply.</p>

<p>Apply ED only if it is your dream college and you would attend there 100% if you get accepted. Statistically - it does increase your chances!! </p>

<p>All the best!</p>

<p>Yeah, I thought the wall of text would be a bit much :stuck_out_tongue: </p>

<p>My biggest problem is my lacklustre and boring ECs and bad year 9-11 grades (had a couple of Bs every semester basically, and occasional Cs in geography and sport) - would a letter from my counselor explaining the personal setbacks I was going through back then (family death, financial crisis) be able to help at all? :/</p>

<p>I do not know if DC and Yale etc will see you as an academic star, since by your own admission you did not win any major national awards. However, they will see you as academically qualified. In other words, they will think you will not flunk out if they admit you. So, think about what else you can offer the campus that other equally well academically qualified, 20,000 applicants cannot. You will add diversity. However, think about what else makes you unique and interesting and write about it. What are you passionate about? For example if you are a native aboriginie you may want to talk about your sub culture. I am not sure having a parent that passed away will make you uniquely different. Touch on this subject but do not dwell upon it.</p>

<p>Heh, yeah, I’m definitely no academic star. I’ll almost definitely get a state-wide award (Premier’s award or something) when I finish high school, but that’s about the only award that I’ll have. </p>

<p>I think I’m a unique person, but then again, who doesn’t? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I’m passionate in physics/neuroscience as well as creative writing, which are two fields that don’t usually mix, and will write about them in my application. I’m also in the process of self publishing a book, and trying to secure university research in the physics department during the holidays. Does that sound “unique and interesting” at all? D:</p>

<p>@finifugal… Don’t try to make yourself unique. Often applicants try to go out of the way to do something which they don’t like to make themselves unique. Adcoms can see through this.</p>

<p>Do what you like to do most. Show dedication in whatever you do. Keep up your grades. You are academically “qualified” - so there’s no problem in applying. </p>

<p>And there’s no problem in being interested in 2 different fields - just be sure to use your essays to explain your interests and how college X can help you pursue them!! :D</p>

<p>International is its own pool so your main competition if from the kids in your own country. If you’re really a .5% kid then you have a shot, although keeping in mind the limited seats available, a top .1-.2% ranking would be even better.</p>

<p>@rishav17/ Good point about uniqueness. Eh, I’m just so worried that my lacklustre list of ECs will bring me down. How bad ARE they, compared to your usual Ivy students? I’m sure I could squeeze in another EC in there…maybe I’ll start a Science Society or something at my school. :stuck_out_tongue: </p>

<p>@sosomenza/ International is its own pool…? Do you have any source to back this up? I’ve never heard about this before. I thought all applicants competed in the same ‘pool’ since they say your international status doesn’t affect anything during decisions… If I raise my grades to, say, 0.3% of the state, would that be “enough” to get me in RD? Can you offer some comments about my ECs?</p>

<p>You have to do your own research, but it’s widely accepted that most U.S. universities only allocate about 20% of the available seats to international applicants. That makes the competition fierce. GL</p>

<p>“Most” US universities…not sure if Yale (and other Ivies) is included in this. 20 Australians were admitted to Yale in 2010/11, but I don’t know how many applied :S </p>

<p>I have another question. If I apply ED, I won’t have my ATAR results yet, which means my application will only contain predicted marks. My grades are lacklustre at best (once again, quite a few Bs and Cs, and all of my As are “low” As) and I’m afraid that the admission officer will put too much emphasis on them, instead of my ATAR. I know that my counselor will explain the Australian education system in her letter, and that admission officers may have prior knowledge of it as well, but that doesn’t stop me from being very afraid that my grades will bar me from being considered as a serious applicant. :confused: Will that be the case?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/1319638-international-students-disadvantage-2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/1319638-international-students-disadvantage-2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Huh, I found this thread. If I’m being compared against students from my own country, that kind of answers my previous question… </p>

<p>Should I also apply to the better LACs? If I’m going against all the private school kids from my own country who are rich enough to pay full fee and do a boatload of ECs, I don’t think I stand much of a chance. :/</p>

<p>@finifugal</p>

<p>No. of ECs is not as important as dedication & achievement. I’d say an applicant with 2 interests - debating & football, who has been pursuing both for 4 years and has won several awards would be more desirable than an applicant with 10 ECs spread over 4 years with no real dedication. </p>

<p>So don’t just try to show extra ECs - it won’t help. Your ECs show dedication & you can actually do wonders by talking about them in your essays !!</p>

<p>As far as universities having “international pools” - it isn’t an official quota as such.
I think it’s best to not concern yourself with that while applying, you’ll just feel bad about yourself.</p>

<p>Also, I noticed your list contains only Ivy/Top universities. There are many other great universities who aren’t need blind but would probably accept you with aid - Rice, Duke, UChicago, etc & LACs.</p>

<p>As far as ATAR results, that isn’t an important factor in admission decisions. So whether or not you apply ED shouldn’t be based . Colleges want to see good consistent performance. If your school’s grading policy is strict, make your counselor mention it in the school profile. Also indicate your class rank to show how you’re performance compares against that of the class.</p>

<p>I don’t have any awards; who gives awards for being dedicated to the school newspaper? :confused: </p>

<p>I’m only aiming for Ivies because they’re the only need blind universities for internationals. I haven’t looked at Rice, Duke etc; why would they accept me “with aid”? I can’t pay for any portion of the tuition, so partial aid just won’t cut it, because my mother has been jobless for several years and we’ve got an income bracket of <20k. I’m considering LACs right now (Amherst and Williams seems to be need blind for internationals) but their lack of name recognition outside the US makes me hesitate, as I want to work outside the US. </p>

<p>Thank you so much for taking your time to reply to me several times; I’m so appreciative.</p>

<p>I’d go back and do some more research on international aid if I were you. Only four ivies are need blind for internationals: HYP and Dartmouth. Schools like Duke often give substantial need and merit based aid to qualified international students. Look up the Karsh Scholarship at Duke. It provided aid to needy and meritorious internationals. I can’t comment on Rice or the University of Chicago since I don’t know enough about their policies. Duke’s Robertson scholarship was endowed by Julian Robertson, a billionaire who spent some time living in New Zealand. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the scholarship committee favors applicants from down under (by which I mean both Australia and New Zealand) but I don’t know whether this is officially verifiable.</p>

<p>Note: Cornell is need blind but not full need (essentially rendering it meaningless).</p>

<p>Well awards are crucial. But not having them can be compensated through your essays - if you are able to show passion for them.</p>

<p>Either way, applying only to Ivies may not help you as even though your grades/scores are on the upper side - you need that something extra to be confident of getting into any Ivy.
Which is why I suggested Rice, etc. There are a lot of colleges in the US which are just below Ivy/MIT/etc. level but are still great univs with worldwide repute, such as Rice, WUSTL, Vanderbilt, etc - that offer aid to Intn’ls. Even though they have need aware admissions, I’d say you have a better shot at these places than the super competitive Ivies you have mentioned. I feel this is something worth considering.</p>

<p>As far as LACs are concerned, you’ll get a job placement out of college but in USA. You’d probably have to get work experience before moving out to someplace else. Or you could always complete your masters degree from a top univ and make yourself more marketable for jobs?!! :D</p>

<p>Ohh and I keep replying because I was in a similar situation last year!! :stuck_out_tongue:
So just trying to help out with the little knowledge I have.</p>

<p>Galiforce is right though - Cornell is need blind but not full need. However, I’d say there’s no harm in trying!!</p>

<p>@galiforce: I’m nearly out of 3G, so checking out Duke is hard for the moment… Is Duke considered a good school? The financial aid you describe sounds great, but I’m not sure whether I count as a “meritorious” student :stuck_out_tongue: Those Bs and Cs… I think I’m going to apply to Duke as well! Fingers crossed.</p>

<p>@rishav17: All my ECs are geared towards community service and writing (starting a charity, writing a novel, all those outreach activities, editor in chief of school newspaper…) which makes me REALLY worried. Will they look bad on me if I say that I’m passionate about physics (which I really, really, really am) but not have anything that shows this passion, other than the essay?</p>

<p>The above poster has convinced me to apply to Duke as well. I’ll check out the rest of the schools when I’m at a library (free net!) which sound better than LACs.</p>

<p>I’m so happy that you keep replying! What school did you end up at? How are you finding it?</p>

<p>@finifugal - I’m just another applicant(i.e. applying this year). Till now I have only received acceptances from my safeties UIUC & Drexel. Though won’t be attending there unless I get a good amount of Scolarship $$ !! Waiting on decisions from the Ivies & Northwestern(and I’m sure to get rejected!! :stuck_out_tongue: )</p>

<p>Anyway - nope, being dedicated towards the community is as good an EC as any. Even though it helps to have ECs related to your prospective major - they aren’t necessary if you can adequately use your essays to explain your love for that particular major. </p>

<p>Also use this as a reference for how generous different schools are with their aid:-
[Schools</a> Awarding International Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.internationalstudent.com/schools_awarding_aid/]Schools”>Schools Awarding International Financial Aid)</p>

<p>[note: Use the browse by state option… ]</p>

<p>Dartmouth offers full aid to all accepted students, including internationals, correct? </p>

<p>rishav, how are your stats? I think I’m RDing to Dartmouth and would love to get a rough idea of “competition”. :stuck_out_tongue: (eh, not like I’m a viable candidate…) Jokes aside, will a well written letter from the counselor lessen the impact of my sup par grades? :confused: I guess that’s my main worry.</p>

<p>yup I will for sure…Just ask him/her to explain your circumstances</p>

<p>@finifugal - Yes Dartmouth is need blind for Internationals!! Love them!! :smiley:
So is Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Amherst & MIT.</p>

<p>So I don’t really want to post my stats :stuck_out_tongue: but you can go here and look it up
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1424697-chances-ivies-international-student.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1424697-chances-ivies-international-student.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Obviously you’ll see that I’m too hopeful & perraziman’s advice was just a bit too late to change my approach! Haha!!</p>

<p>Don’t know how much a counselor’s letter will help, but it surely won’t hurt!! :D</p>