International kid here, wondering if applying to Yale will be a waste of time...

[finifugalmeep]

<p>I guess what I'm trying to ask, really, is whether I have a real shot at Yale or not, with the following stats:</p>

<p>2300+ SAT, 750+ on SAT subject exams</p>

<p>99.5+ ATAR, no GPA or class rank available (but this ATAR = top 0.5% in state)</p>

<p>Superb teacher and counselor recommendations</p>

<p>Some Bs and Cs (in geography and sport, both of which I am no longer doing) in report with a legitimate reason for them (financial difficulty, family death)</p>

<p>Very strong leaving exam taken in year 10, which is standardised </p>

<p>Amazing essays and short answers</p>

<p>ECs:</p>

<p>School newspaper that was nearly dying that I 'revived', and managed to quadruple participation rates (editor in chief)</p>

<p>School band for two years (flutist and pianist)</p>

<p>Volunteering at a church for mentally disabled people (was a buddy to two guys)</p>

<p>World Vision & Sponsoring Club at school, where we try to raise money to sponsor children from third world countries (senior member)</p>

<p>School outreach/community service club that raises money, awareness etc for cancer council, visiting nursing homes, sending money overseas to third world countries etc (senior member) </p>

<p>*NGO-registered charity that is focusing on building a school in a third world country by getting donations, fundraising and enticing sponsors (co-founder and co-president) </p>

<p>*Self-published author</p>

<p>*Summer research at a university in my future major in college</p>

<p>(* = still in progress, but will have achieved by Novemberish)</p>

<p>I'll also be applying to Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Dartmouth and Cornell, since they're all need blind even to internation students, but Yale is my dream school and I'll be crushed if I'm just not good enough for it. :/ </p>

<p>If I can't make it to Yale, do I have a shot at any of the other schools on that list? I'm really fond of Dartmouth and Cornell as well...</p>

<p>--- Details below (I'd really appreciate it if you took the time to read it all, as I'm an international student and our education system will be unclear to you unless you read everything :/)</p>

<p>I've made up my mind to shoot for the stars, and so will be applying for Yale this year as an international student from down under. I'm not the most stellar candidate Yale has ever seen, though. My extracurriculars are terrible and bland and just not unique at all, though...as is pretty much every other part of my application.</p>

<p>I've also done some other things that aren't worth mentioning, like other school clubs and going to a UN youth conference. I'm also a recreational swimmer and tennis player, and learned martial arts for two years, but I don't see a way to incorporate this into the application, so I won't be including them.</p>

<p>I'm the only person in my school who is applying for Ivy league schools, so I don't have anyone to compare against; and everyone who is on CC seems to be so amazingly qualified at pretty much everything. I feel totally lacking and inadequate in comparison to those varsity sporty guys, international science olympiad champions and presidents of ten different clubs or something. I'm just...ordinary, you know? :/</p>

<p>My grades aren't great either. Although we don't have GPAs or class ranks in Australia (and so I won't be submitting them) we ARE required to provide a complete secondary school report... and I'm terrified that this will bring me down enormously. </p>

<p>Year 9: 5 As, 4 Bs (science, geography, sports, commerce) and 6As, 3Bs in final report (history, geography, sport)</p>

<p>Year 10: 6As, 2Cs (sport, geography) and 6A, B (geography) and C (sports)</p>

<p>Year 11: 5As, 2Bs (English Extension, Maths Extension) and 6As, B (history)</p>

<p>I haven't gotten my year 12 report yet, but I know that they'll be straight As this time (both midyear and final) - but I'm wondering whether my Bs and Cs have ruined my chances at Yale completely. </p>

<p>I do have a legitimate justification for my poor grades. My father was diagnosed with terminal cancer at the start of year 9; I spent the entirety of year 9 and 10 spending time with him and helping out in the house (my mother was his caretaker, and they both stopped working, so we were tight on money) After he passed away in the middle of year 10, our financial security plummeted, as my mother went back to school to provide a better life for us and thus had no income. I started working part time to lessen the burden on her. </p>

<p>Another worry is the fact that I don't have any remarkable awards that are worthy of mention, apart from an academic award in history and maths a couple of years ago, and a school-issued Gold Award that can be obtained by being an active participant in every facet of school life.</p>

<p>In Sydney, we do a standardised test called School Certificate at the end of year 10 which is state-wide and tests students on materials from the past two years. I did well in it, with scores of: English (97), maths (96), computing skills (99), history (97), science (94) and geography (90). As an international student, I'm required to submit this result...this is one of the few good things about my academic record. :/</p>

<p>The final university entrance exam is sat after year 12, and is once again, state-wide. The final score we receive is called an ATAR, and has a maximum possible mark of 99.95. The catch about an ATAR, though, is that it's a RANK against the state, not your real grade. It increases in increments of 0.05, which represents 50 people. This means that 50 people who receive 99.95, the maximum ATAR, are literally the fifty strongest students in the state. My school, which is one of the hardest schools in state, always produce at least two kids who get 99.95. </p>

<p>I'm expecting an ATAR of anywhere between 99.1 to 99.85 which is basically being in the top <1% of Sydney. Were I to remain in Australia, this ATAR would be enough to get me into virtually any undergraduate courses, including law and medicine, at any university, especially since we don't look at high school GRADES here when being considered for university admissions. I know that a girl a couple of years ago who got 99.95 got into Harvard...but I'm afraid that Yale will place greater importance on high school grades and disregard my ATAR, or hold it in equal regards. </p>

<p>My year 12 report will also have my individual ranks in each subject, which is NOT looking good for me. I know that I'll get an A, but my rank itself won't be that great. In my defence, I go to one of the hardest, most academically rigorous high schools in the state, if not the country (my high school is in the top 5 schools in Sydney) where around a third of the kids get into undergraduate medicine, law, etc...but even then, I'm scared that my ATAR won't play big enough a factor for Yale, because of my past grades and ranks within the school. I should note though that my courses are all incredibly demanding and possibly the most difficult combination available in Sydney.</p>

<p>I'm almost certain that both teacher recommendations will be splendid, however. I'm planning to ask my English and physics teacher, as English is my best subject, and my
physics teacher sees me as very enthusiastic and diligent. The counselor recommendation will also be pretty strong. </p>

<p>The essays will probably be the best parts of my application. My other English teacher has commented that I write at a grad school level and has said that I (and my writing) "have brilliance," and writing is certainly the strongest talent that I have. (although that doesn't seem very evident when rereading this extremely long post...)</p>

<p>Yale is my DREAM university. If I'm not good enough to get in (which I probably am not) could anyone suggest other things that I could do to liven up my application? I'm honestly doing everything that I can, but nothing I do now can recover my grades from lower years, nor can it improve my already semi-ruined year 12 ranks...but my ATAR will still be really, really good - will my personal statement and SAT, and maybe recommendations save me?</p>

[deregon1594]

<p>Your stats look great. Definitely apply. Internationals sometimes have a bit of a hassle applying to US schools but I think you have a brilliant chance. If its your dream school definitely apply, the length of your post alone shows just exactly how badly you want it. A lot of ivy admissions can be luck nowadays so you never know but don’t let anyone hold you back from trying. What do you have to lose? 75$ for a chance at a dream?</p>

[Kdog044]

<p>Just an FYI, although Cornell is need-blind for internationals, they don’t guarantee to meet full need like the others do. You might want to check out the article below:</p>

<p><a href=“http://cornellsun.com/section/opinion/content/2012/09/14/problem-need-aware-international-admissions[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/section/opinion/content/2012/09/14/problem-need-aware-international-admissions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[yalebeta]

<p>haha amazing essays…</p>

[eduard97]

<p>Kdog044— Cornell is NOT need blind for internationals</p>

[hopingforbetter]

<p>^Cornell is need-blind for internationals but does not guarantee to meet the 100% demonstrated aid!</p>

[Kdog044]

<p>Yes they are. See below:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.finaid.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/International%20Financial%20Aid%20FAQs%208-6-12.pdf[/url]”>http://www.finaid.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/International%20Financial%20Aid%20FAQs%208-6-12.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Is Cornell need-blind for admission for international students?</p>

<p>•Yes. At Cornell all admission consideration is need blind, meaning that your ability to finance your education does not impact your admissions decision. Admitted students who have applied for international aid and have demonstrated financial need will be considered for any available funds.
•Due to our limited funds we cannot provide funding to all admitted
international students that demonstrate financial need</p>

[finifugalmeep]

<p>deregon1594/ Why do internationals have a hassle applying? Is there anything about internationals that I should be aware of? </p>

<p>Sorry that this might seem inconvenient, but could you tell me why you think that I have a “brilliant chance” - what part of my application tells you that? My counselor is trying to discourage me from applying to Yale, because my academic records haven’t been amazing, and I’m starting to feel totally inadequate as a candidate. </p>

<p>kdog044/ Drat. If Cornell doens’t guarantee full need, should I cross it off my “top schools” list? Yale, Cornell and Dartmouth are my top three schools… Do you reckon I’ll have a shot at all at HYP, MIT or Dartmouth then? </p>

<p>I’m also considering picking up archery or another interesting hobby. Should I go for it? I’m willing to do almost anything to go to Yale.</p>

[Vivaciousakrish]

<p>You don’t need to feel incompetent because you think you don’t have amazing EC’s. Within the context of your circumstances, you have demonstrated great potential and achievement, and have handled adversity well. That’s what matters. While Yale is a reach for everyone, keep the dream alive.</p>

<p>I recommend applying to some top liberal arts colleges too. Williams, Amherst and Middlebury come to mind. Vassar and Grinnell too, perhaps. These colleges value personal characteristics a lot, and your grades and SAT scores are great for them. They also promise to meet full need, and can give you an amazing undergraduate experience. You could always go to those top schools later :).</p>

[lboss1223]

<p>Don’t do EC’s, because you would look like a “good” applicant or that you think that you will be “more likely” to be accepted, because you do that activity. Pursue ONLY the EC’s you have passions for. Admission officers will know if you did EC’s out of the sake of doing EC’s or because you were passionate about those activities from other parts of your application.</p>

[Lelyke]

<p>I’m international and Cornell gave me ~100% my full need. If they want you, they’ll give you your full need trust me.</p>

[hcarmingkarma]

<p>I’d actually like to read your essays, if you’d let me. Don’t worry about plagiarism, I’ve already sent in my application to Yale.
Personally, I think you’re misappropriating your worries. While academic rigor is certainly important, you’ve already reached the standard that Yale requires; right now, you should be worrying more about how Yale sees you as a person, and these essays allow you to do just that. I might be able to help assuage these fears you have (and I’ve read hundreds of essays, so don’t worry about whether or not I’m “qualified”) with a second opinion, especially in light of all this information about your high school career. What’s most important is that come March 28th, you’ll accept whatever decision happens, and still acknowledge that despite whatever occurs on that day, you’re still an outstanding individual nonetheless.</p>

[hcarmingkarma]

<p>Also jw, why specifically Yale and not Harvard and Princeton?</p>

[stressedouttt]

<p>your stats look absolutely amazing, but there are a few things to keep in mind.</p>

<p>1) all those top schools are a crapshoot for anyone. even if you’ve cured cancer. sometimes it’s not even about you not being a good candidate, but them wanting something different (e.g. they already have 50 oboe players, and they want more diversity on campus, they’re not going to pick another oboe player, and instead get a trumpet player).</p>

<p>2) don’t get yourself stuck onto one dream school. do your best in all you applications, and keep an open mind.</p>

[finifugalmeep]

<p>@vivaciousakrish/ I’m just wondering how MUCH context matters to Yale. I haven’t done much ECs because from year 9-10, I was spending all of my time with my father, who got diagnosed with terminal cancer; from year 10-11, I was working part time to help ends meet for my mother, who was unemployed and stopped receiving the carer pension due to my father’s death. This is also my grades suffered. I DID do very well in the year 10 standardised testing though, and my school is very, very, very touch academically… </p>

<p>Do you think that that could “excuse” my poor grades and lack of ECs? Would this be considered a “hook”? Now that I’m in Year 12, I’m starting to do more ECs and pull up my gades by quite a bit, but I’m afraid that that won’t be enough - that there will be other applicants who have had worse than I have, but still managed to get great GPAs and cure world hunger or something. </p>

<p>I will probably apply to Amherst and Williams, since they’re great LACs and need blind…but keeping my fingers crossed for Yale :)</p>

<p>@lboss1223: I’m passionate about writing and being creative; I’ve put in a lot of effort into maintaining our school newspaper. I also feel very strongly about physics/neuroscience, but I haven’t done any ECs to show that (I plan to try to shadow a researcher or something at a local university) and that’s what makes me afraid, since the only place I’ll have to show my passion towards them is in the essay… </p>

<p>@lelyke: The important thing being that that only applies if they DO want you. I don’t think I’m THAT desirable of a candidate, like you were. Or am I being too much of a debbie downer?</p>

<p>@hcarmingkarma: I’d be so happy if you were to read my essays and offer criticism on them. </p>

<p>That’s the thing, though - I don’t feel that I HAVE reached the academic standards that Yale requires. Although I’ll have GREAT year 12 results and an ATAR, and will mostly blitz the SAT, my track record in year 9-11 is horrible (Bs and Cs, gah…) and although I did have extensive personal reasons for them (paraphrasing, parental death, financial difficulties, had to work to support family, etc) I don’t think the adversities I faced were “difficult” enough to be excused. </p>

<p>How important are the essays, and how “Yale sees you as a person”? I think the essays are the only places where I might shine, but as my mother keeps pointing out, I don’t think it’ll be enough to tip the scales in my favour. </p>

<p>I haven’t written the essays yet, but if you could offer pointers and tips, it’d be SO appreciative. </p>

<p>Yale, not Harvard or Princeton because Yale is where I want to be. I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s THAT school that “calls out” to me. (gah, such horrible expression) I love everything about it. I’ve also heard people say that Harvard runs you dry, and that Princeton has many wealthy, privileged, “snobby” kids Not sure how true that is, but even if they aren’t, Yale is the one place that I want to be. I’d choose it over Hogwarts! </p>

<p>@stressedouttt: your username certainly strikes true with me… The thing is that my stats AREN’T “absolutely amazing”, I think. Bad year 9-11 grades and meh ECs… If I had good stats, I wouldn’t be ON CC, fretting and trying to constantly guess my chances at Yale </p>

<p>Yeah, I thought that the top schools would want diversity and uniqueness above all, which is why I wanted to do more “unique” ECs. I thought starting my own charity would be “unique” enough, but after being on CC, I’m convinced that every other person appyling to HYP has cured world hunger and built five hospitals in Nepal. </p>

<p>–</p>

<p>I feel so inadequate after being on CC! Were I to stay in Australia, I could get into any university that I wanted, and do any course that I wanted to do, including undergraduate medicine and law…but I’m starting to realise that I’m nothing compared to some of the students gunning for top schools in the US. It’s so strange to see so many people do SO many ECs.</p>

[Lelyke]

<p>You are definitely being fatalistic, your stats are actually good you know except for those B and Cs. Which won’t matter if the rest of your application is good. I got a B in my junior year and I still got into Cornell. Thing is if Yale is your dream school, lose the fatalism and apply. A Cornell alumni told me “Forget about every other person’s stats and see yourself as good” and it really helped me.</p>

[finifugalmeep]

<p>I probably sound as if I’m hyperventilating over the internet. Gah. (which I kinda am…) I have a quick question to ask: I want to study physics/neuro in uni, but all my ECs are humanitarian/writing-centred. I’m starting a charity, writing a novel, editor in chief of the school newspaper, joined outreach clubs, etc… Will this look bad on me? I don’t have any physics related ECs, and can’t find a way to participate in any of them. What should I do? How terrible are my ECs in comparison with other applicants? (you know, those kids, with robotics national teams and president of a thousand clubs…)</p>

[weallcaresomuch]

<p>It should be fine. Universities will not expect that you will have your career completely planned out before you even graduate from high school. It should not factor into your admission decision if you have not already dedicated your life to physics.</p>

<p>Admissions officers also look at your ECs and classes in comparison to what your school offers. If your school does not have an amazing Science Olympiad or Nationally aclaimed robotics team, then they won’t expect you to have that kind of experience. You said that you’re the only student at your school considering Ivies–that’s probably a good sign that you’ve taken advantage of the opportunities your school has offered.</p>

<p>Also, your excuses for your lower grades are good reasons. When you apply, you probably want to have one of your teacher recommenders, possibly from one of the classes that you got a C in, explain your circumstances in a positive light to the Admissions people. There is also an Additional Information section on the Common App that you can use to explain yourself. (I used it to attach a short resume.)</p>

[hcarmingkarma]

<p>Yea, send it over when you’re finished writing them!</p>

<p>“but as my mother keeps pointing out, I don’t think it’ll be enough to tip the scales in my favour.”
What point is there in thinking that it will or will not tip the scales? It should not be any deterrent to writing the best essay of your life, and to discovering who you are in the meantime. If it can tip the scales in your favor, then write a good essay. If it can’t, well you don’t know that, so write a good essay. Trying to understand the perfect way to possibly give yourself a chance is a self-destructive path; you don’t know what exactly will beckon college admissions officers to your side, so there’s no point in trying to read between the nonexistent lines.</p>

<p>I can only really give you tips/revisions once you’ve written the thing. All I can say is find your voice, don’t worry too much about what to write so long as it matters to you, and don’t be frustrated with writing well until you’ve captured exactly who you are as a person.</p>

<p>“I’d choose it over Hogwarts!”
Bad choice. Always Hogwarts.</p>

[Vivaciousakrish]

<p>Funny you mentioned Nepal. I’m from there haha The context of your application is very, very important. What Yale, and most other colleges, wants to see is how exceptionally have you utilized your time and the resources provided to you given your circumstances. Working part-time is definitely an extracurricular, especially since it was to make ends meet. And don’t just do a bunch of activities in Gr 12. That will probably be perceived as an attempt to impress adcom.</p>