<p>you can focus on other aspects of your application....</p>
<p>i have everything right except the SAT.i haveGPA3.75.667\677 on toefl.good EC's</p>
<p>so no problem then...u can't do anything more...can u?</p>
<p>I fully expect to get flamed for this, but for those of you who think the SAT I shouldn't be required, how the hell do you expect to go to college in the US if you can't speak or write in English? That just screams of an unjustified sense of entitlement to me.</p>
<p>Learning a language is the easiest thing in the world.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but for those of you who think the SAT I shouldn't be required, how the hell do you expect to go to college in the US if you can't speak or write in English? That just screams of an unjustified sense of entitlement to me
[/quote]
n wat do u really expect????
that evry int'l should giv SAT1 n get into a good biasing of US colleges..n the ones who got less than 600 CR should go n keep wastin money at TOEFL/IELTS??
wont it b better that a student would rather take TOEFL/IELTS n SAT2??</p>
<p>Even a donkey could pass TOEFL/IELTS. SAT distinguishes btw losers and achievers.</p>
<p>No........I totally disagree with u........I havnt seen any ''donkey'' taking any test in my life(lol.........lol..........lol..........lol............lol.........)....
n well,it might b very easy for one to say that if he or she has been studyin english for all their school life(it may not b native)....bu think bout those who cant understand A of english.....for them,TOEFL/IELTS is like a big mountain to b dug........</p>
<p>I think you are misunderstanding (though it's hard to tell, considering the way you type). I'm saying that a student who struggles that much with English has no business attending an elite college in the United States. That isn't to say that SAT I standards should be as high for internationals coming from abroad as for domestic students, only that eliminating the requirement would be counterproductive. </p>
<p>I'm an international student who learned English in 7th grade, so I'm certainly not trying to keep internationals out of college; I do think, however, that a certain level of proficiency in English is essential and should absolutely be required. Like it or not, at some point you're going to have to write a paper.</p>
<p>ya.......that is wat I was tryin to say...that proof is more than enough,so,it is unecessary to make evry int'l student to take SAT if he can take TOEFL/IELTS..........n sorry for the above writtin..(I forgot to add commas....thats y it was not clear...lol....)......</p>
<p>I agree that requiring a single test would be far more reasonable, but in order for that to work, I think the TOEFL would need to be revised to more accurately measure the type of reading and writing skills that students need for college. I haven't actually taken the test, so I can't speak for or against its content, but the fact that it's required in addition to the SAT I instead of as a substitute seems to imply that on its own, it's simply insufficient.</p>
<p>Its level is good(I mean its not that abysmal..)..ppl can easily speak/understand english who can clear TOEFL/IELTS...but learning the ''whole'' grammar,n those thousands of words for SAT is not a good idea.....</p>
<p>I think the SAT vocabs and grammer are extremely beneficial to one's reading and writing skills. Even though I'm proficient in english, I found some interesting grammatical points from SAT writing that I had not noticed before. I think, the things you learn in SAT (w+r) are critical points everyone needs to have as a base system for essay writing, reading and analysing.</p>
<p>I have no problems with TOEFL, except 1. It's FEE. I believe it's fair for colleges to make toefl a requirement for all international students - although it may be easy for us on cc (proficiency is evident here), I know for a fact that TOEFL is extremely hard on students in asia (especially the new version). I know for one, that s.korea has many institutions with classes specifically designed for toefl where students struggle to score above that required toefl score. Although I have not witnissed this in other countries, I believe it also applies to places such as japan, china, taiwan, etc..</p>
<p>It's unfair to moan about how unfair the US admission system is. We are entering their country, we are willing to study in their country, and for some, asking for full tuition of 40,000 USD per year. The US has their TOEFL AP SAT, the british have the CIE, nz has NCEA, etc...</p>
<p>My only complaint is ETS: the toefl fee of 165 usd. I believe I should not have to take it but if that's what they want, I'll give it to them (reluctantly hehe).</p>
<p>I don't think people is cheeky for wanting to study there. If their goverment has right to meddle with other countries' policies and economies, why would they be close to foreign students? They can introduce their products in every market and compete with the local products; then the students from everywhere can enter their colleges and "compete" with their local students...We do give a lot of money to the USA every year anyway. What I'm trying to say is that they can't expect to be close themselves if they are expecting other countries to be always open to them.</p>
<p>This has nothing to do with the government and everything to do with common sense. If you don't know the language spoken in a country, you should not be studying there. I don't think US universities can be blamed for imposing a minimum standard of English competency on their students; most of the work you do in college is going to be writing, and if you're not adequately prepared for that, you're in for a hard time.</p>
<p>I think the SAT is OK as it is (although I sometimes do wish CB were more professional in the way they handle it) but I have serious objections against the TOEFL. The introduction of the IBT, in particular, seems to be little more than a money-making ploy. Previously they had the CBT and PBT both of which could be conveniently scheduled and prepared for; but now they are being phased out. The speaking test, which very few colleges require you to take, has been made compulsory and 'naturally' the fee has been raised to $165. All this seems very suspicious to me.</p>
<p>My response was to <<it's unfair="" to="" moan="" about="" how="" the="" us="" admission="" system="" is.="" we="" are="" entering="" their="" country,="" willing="" study="" in="" and="" for="" some,="" asking="" full="" tuition="" of="" 40,000="" usd="" per="" year.="">> Not to the English proficiency requirements, but to the feeling of doing something unfair by studying there.</it's></p>
<p>It's not unfair to be studying in the US. It's all fair. But, it's unfair to be entering a country, not your own, and moan and grumble about the system.
Try to imagine this from the opposite perspective.</p>
<p>I've read on some college websites that if you're SAT score in English is low, you are required to take the TOEFL. That in my mind would mean making up for a bad SAT score in english.
I agree that the SAT is essential for admissions to colleges but I don't think it makes a distinction between a really good student and an average or bad student. A lot of people with low SAT scores have secured a place in some really good colleges. If you're what they think they want, they won't have any qualms in looking past a SAT score.</p>
<p>I agree completely with both NoFX and cameliasinensis. The minimum english proficiency levels indicated by good CR and W SAT scores are critical to a student's success in college, especially, but not exclusively for those interested in non science courses. </p>
<p>I further agree with your point about Internationals not trying to second guess the admissions system. We're applying to "US" colleges, that are establishing levels of international students in their student body, something not seen in most other countries' colleges. Every seat that we take is hypothetically a seat that a US student might have claimed. Therefore it's only reasonable that they require the same things of us that a similar US student would be required to submit.</p>
<p>I've always found the TOEFL to be too expensive by far. Considering the fact that it's a requirement for internationals in many colleges, the manner in which it's conducted seems to be very haphazard.</p>