something biology related (molecular biology, neuroscience, etc.)
GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
GPA: we don’t have GPA but converted to GPA my unweighted GPA would be 4.0
SAT Scores: based on prep exams 1530-1560
Coursework
We don’t have AP classes and are rather limited in choosing our own courses, so nothing worthwhile mentioning here.
Awards
bronze and silver medal at international biology olympiad
1st place at the national science fair in biology (thereby I qualified for participation at ISEF next year)
3rd place at the national science fair in biology
national finalist in english and ancient greek at the national foreign language competition
Extracurriculars
three month long internship in analytical chemistry group of a cancer research institute
two week long internship in experimental botany group of a plant research institute
speaker of our graduation class at high school (responsible for finances, prom organisation, etc.)
leader of the student organised medical service at our school
two years of research experience in molecular plant biology at university (I did the work for my science fair project there, currently preparing the data for a publication in a scientific journal - if all goes well publication is submitted before the regular decision deadline)
took courses over two years at a university in Germany (ranked regularly among the best 30 universities in biology globally, got pretty decent grades)
got a scholarship at a cancer research institute (well known globally) for a student program, in which I acquired wet-lab experienced and performed original research
wrote a high school research paper in game theory (unpublished)
Essays/LORs/Other
I will probably be able to get pretty good LORs from my greek and math teacher
additional I will get a LOR from the professor leading the group I did research at and another professor that mentored me in my research
Schools
I plan on applying for Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, John-Hopkins, Duke, Brown, Rice, UPenn, Vanderbilt.
What chances do you think I have on getting accepted at these schools?
While you are a strong enough applicant that you would be considered, you should realize that your chances are about 1/3 of those of an equivalent domestic student. For those, like Stanford, which are NOT need-blind for international students, your chances are even lower. So maybe 3%, at most, of all applicants like you are accepted to most of these colleges.
Another problem is that these colleges are extremely different from one another, and a person who is a good fit for Brown is likely not a good fit or MIT. So just sending out a bunch of generic applications to all of these colleges would practically ensure that you will not be accepted to any.
Finally - why? You have amazing universities in Germany, which are far more similar in their teaching methods and requirements to what you are used to from high school, and you will pay less a year to attend one of these universities than you would spend on your airplane ticket to the USA.
I’m well aware that being an international student doesn’t increase my chances. I guess I get what you mean with those colleges being different - sending out generic applications for whatever it is is never a good idea I would think (?). What exactly would you say are the differences in what they look for, let’s say with the examples you provided (Brown and MIT)?
Regarding the why: I want to at least try pursuing a career in research and while there are great and comparably cheap universities in Germany they aren’t that much in the frontier of science regarding research and don’t have as good of a reputation in their undergraduate/bachelors programs as some US colleges have. Furthermore I have to say I’m far more a fan of the US system regarding teaching and general structure of education than the European one.
In the end I guess I can just try and in case I’m not accepted I still have the opportunity to study in Germany - so nothing to loose there
To begin with, Brown has an open curriculum, while MIT has a fairly set list of required courses.
In any case, if you are looking at a career in biology, I wouldn’t recommend either. MIT is strongest in physical sciences and engineering, and Brown is need aware for international students.
If you want to take your shot, I would recommend that you choose 2-3 of the colleges which are need-blind for international students - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Dartmouth (as of this year), and Amherst College, and apply to one ED/REA, and the other two RD (I think that Amherst may have EDII, but I may be wrong).
You can also look at colleges which are need-aware for international students, but which have a good history of financial support for international students (there are a number of lists on the internet). While the fact that you need financial aid will count against you, you are a reasonably strong candidate, and you would be attractive for colleges for which your general profile matches their top accepted students.
Just remember that applications and letters of recommendation need to be tailored so as to demonstrate that you are a good fit for the colleges to which you are applying.
Really pay attention to which schools are need blind for internationals. You’ve got a very strong record, but very few internationals who need aid are admitted to colleges that aren’t need blind.
Also, for those that ARE need blind, run the net price calculators to see if how much you think you need is close to what the colleges are willing to give you.
Also while MWolf says
Some of those on his list are SCEA, Single Choice Early Action, which precludes you from applying ED, except in some cases, ED 2 or EA2, at other colleges. For example, here is a link to Yale’s rules. https://admissions.yale.edu/single-choice-early-action
In my opinion you are competitive at any university in the US. However, admissions to the top universities as an international student is very tough. You certainly need safeties somewhere else.
I do wonder why you want to attend university in the US. Can you explain this?
Generally speaking in the US you are required to take more classes outside of your major compared to some other countries. You might want to check on each university’s web site what the general education requirements are. These are classes that every student needs to take to graduate. We live in the US but one daughter graduated from university in Canada and was able to take more classes in her major and closely related fields (which also included research related to her major, some of which was the basis for her honours thesis). For her this was a good fit. It was also way less expensive compared to the US.
With regard to cost, the US is expensive. You should be able to check on each university’s web site whether they meet full need for international students. You can run the “net price calculator” for each university in the US to get a guess regarding how much it is likely to cost. In most cases the top schools (such as the ones you list) have no merit based aid, and only offer need based financial aid. The amount of need based aid that you get can vary from none to the full cost of attendance depending upon your situation (but you will still most likely need to pay for some expenses such as flights and health insurance even if you are poor). For our daughter who studied in Canada we paid less for a full four years than we would have paid for one year in the US at any university on the level of the schools that you have listed.
A bachelor’s degree in Germany combined with a graduate degree (perhaps a master’s degree, or …) in the US is also an option.
This is a very top heavy list. Some of these schools meet full need for all accepted students and are need blind for admissions. Some aren’t. For those that are need aware, your financial need will be considered when your application for admission is considered.
So…chances? These are all reaches for international students. Actually, they are reaches for all students.
This is not accurate. Germany is a powerhouse in research. I think it’s only behind the US and Britain in number of Nobel Laureates (most in the physical science and medicine). There is great research going on at research universities and institutes in Germany. The technical university in Munich had a recent chemistry Nobel laureate if I remember correctly.
This is not to say that you should not try to study in the US. It’s always a great learning experience to study abroad. But don’t disregard the amazing universities in your own country. I would find it difficult to pay for undergrad in the US if I had a technical university of Munich, Berlin or Karlsruhe in my pocket. Good luck!
Edited to add: Germany saw two Nobel laureates in 2021 in Physics and Chemistry. University of Cologne and Max Planck and University of Hamburg and Max Planck.
OP, shoot your shot. With your record, you are likely to be a top international candidate. That of course doesn’t mean you’ll get in, but your odds will be better than many international students. Put together the strongest applications you can. Good luck!
My D could study for free in our current home country and she has had some good offers, but in the end she wanted the varied courses and a change from the very intense schedule of schooling here. Her last three years took up more hours than a full time job, and then on top of that she had some activities and so much homework. In a sense, that was preparation for her to do prépas here, but she did not want to abandon her music for two years. She is a very good student ( just got a Très Bien on her Bac!), but there is so little time to find all these competitions etc, that would set you apart, and she was never doing things with the thought of what would look good on a US college application, so she did not get into the schools that would cover the whole bill because of our modest income. Still, we are willing to pay what we need to, up to a limit -for her to have the experience she really wants. I really think, that the schools that didn’t accept her lost out. She’s pretty special, and I’m not just saying that because I’m her mother, people tell me so all the time. Really.
Point being, if you want to try the States, absolutely do, but have safeties at home and look for other schools besides the tippy top that you could be interested in, because all those schools you listed are wicked hard to be admitted to.
One of the big differences between US and most of the international universities that I know best is that undergrads are not typically involved in research. In the US most undergrads who want to be involved in research can be.
OP, you are a very strong candidate. Shoot your shot at the ‘T10’- I understand the value of name recognition when you are bringing an international degree home- but if you are serious about wanting to be in the US, research a much longer list. First figure out which of the super-tops really fit what you are looking for (and why), then use the ‘schools like this’ and posters here on CC to id schools that are similar in those ways. There are more unis than you may realize with rich opportunities for being involved in research, for top faculty, and extremely talented peers, and you will be able to get into any grad school from any (say) T50 (the whole T-X thing is problematic)
This. You want a US college to gift you some amount of your education, but in practice it is a trade: they have something you want (access to their university), so you need to have something they want. If you are Harvard, you are spoilt for choice, b/c the name recognition of Harvard is hard to beat. But if you are Wesleyan / Rice / Hamilton / Swarthmore / etc., most internationals haven’t heard of you and the pool of international applicants is not as deep- meaning that an applicant with credentials like yours, OP stands out more. It’s still a very long shot- very few US unis have more than 8-15% international students!- but it is slightly more possible.
You / your family may say ‘no point going to the US if it’s not Harvard when we have good local choices’- and that is totally fair! But if the goal is to get to the US, then broaden out past the names that every international applicant knows.
Germany has excellent biological research. In fact, my PhD advisor used to have a joke: Every physiologist will eventually be frustrated to discover that all the work they’ve ever performed in their career has been previously done and was published in German decades earlier.
I don’t know how much undergraduates are typically involved in research there, however. It’s obviously possible, based on the fact that you already have a TON of research experience. Come to the US if you really want to, but it’s by no means necessary, nor is going to a T10 school ($$$) necessary.
Have you considered attending university in Germany, but doing a study abroad or exchange program in the US? I just googled and found 2 such programs for Germany biology exchange at Michigan Tech and U Wisconsin-Madison, just as an example. Some programs are specific to certain subjects, such as biology, while some of them are more general. If you do some careful searching, I’ll bet you could find a suitable partnership of this type between a German school of interest and a US school.
If you are really set on a career in biology research, you’ll want to aim for a PhD. You could do your undergraduate studies in Germany, with a possible exchange to the US, and then do your PhD in the US. That is VERY common here, and you’d get into good programs. It doesn’t matter that much where you do your undergraduate degree, as long as you do well. US vs Germany, or T10 vs lower ranked schools. Many Europeans do their PhD in a different country from their undergraduate anyway, so I’d strongly consider that path if I were you. It will likely save you a TON of money.
That’s one of the main reasons I want to go to the US. Of course you can do undergrad research in Germany BUT pretty much only within the very narrow field of your bachelors program and this can be pretty narrow pretty quick.
Well that’s true but the research done in Germany is more basic research and less applied research (with few exceptions) and I know I’m more interested in applied research after all. Despite that I’m well aware that in general there is very good research in Germany (see nobel laureates).
Absolutely. In case I have to/decide to do my undergraduate studies in Germany this would be indeed my plan and for Masters/PhD in US there are many great scholarships in Germany so it would also be easier on that front.
Thanks for that advice, totally missed the ‘schools like this’ section on here somehow … this is also what I’m mainly struggling with - I based this preliminary list on what schools I already knew/names appeared regularly in research papers I read/were good in rankings, even though this isn’t necessarily what I’m looking for.
Not trying to argue with you, but I am really surprised to hear that. The most “applied” research you can do in biology is biomedical, engineering, or boots-on-the-ground ecology. Germany is great at all of those, and their reputation for engineering is world-renowned, arguably above that of the US. The US might have the best reputation for medical research, but Germany is certainly no slouch.
What type of applied biological research are you aiming for? It sounds like you have some pretty specific ideas of what you’d like to do. Perhaps targeting individual laboratories or departments would be a good idea for you. You are more likely to find an excellent research fit with that approach than just targeting T10 or other “top” schools. There is not a strong correlation of “top ranked schools” with what would be considered the top biology research laboratories. The labs with the best reputations in a given field will be distributed in a wide variety of institutions. I don’t see why a T10 school in the US would have particularly great “applied” bio research over any other good US or German school.
Particularly for an undergrad. And I’m not sure where the idea that undergrads can’t participate in research in Europe came from. I studied in Europe and had a number of great opportunities for undergrad research.
OP, you want to study in the US and that’s great. Go for it but beware of sticker shock is all I’m saying.
Yeah you’re certainly right with that. My comments regarding research in Germany were a bit blunt I’m well aware of this.
However you’re right that there are certain areas I’m interested in (can’t decide which topic to pursue career-wise but that’s the purpose of the undergrad studies) and will look/have already looked which universities perform research in these areas/niches. There are some lower ranked schools that perform this research, which I haven’t included in my list yet.
So in general thanks for your feedback y’all! I think I have something to work on and as mentioned often enough I’ll just give it a shot and otherwise there are still great backup options in Europe
If “pretty decent” is an A or A+ you have a pretty decent chance at getting into a top US program. If the grades were Bs, you have about the average chance for international students at top US schools who provide fin aid to international students: ~1%
-for her to have the experience she really wants. I really think, that the schools that didn’t accept her lost out. She’s pretty special, and I’m not just saying that because I’m her mother, people tell me so all the time. Really.
… this is also what I’m mainly struggling with - I based this preliminary list on what schools I already knew/names appeared regularly in research papers I read/were good in rankings, even though this isn’t necessarily what I’m looking for.