The way it works for an international student admitted to an elite college for a stem subject is that they turn their last internships into an OPT, which is almost always directly approved for a year, after which there’s a review and they are renewed for a year and a half (ie, till the next date of classes). They apply to master’s degree programs which can be funded either by the university or the employer, depending on where they are, and/or PhD programs, typically at a big name university. Then they have 2 years of OPT. So we’re talking 2028 before Gigi definitely returns to Nigeria for a job and at that point she’d have experience in brand name companies as well as a master’s degree from a university known in her country.
For that reason, I think the Amherst=>opt=>big name master’s is preferable to Dartmouth-> opt. In particular it’s important to keep the degree/opt/degree/opt alternate (opt is justified by a new degree and MUST be related to the subject in which the degree has been obtained.)
In addition, a brilliant black girl in cs is going to have amazing opportunities.
^I am secretly hoping that with a really successful undergrad experience, Gigi gets another try at Princeton. I think her age could have been an issue this time.
Also, for the uninitiated, I’m guessing OPT stands for “Optional Practical Training”, a passport status which permits internationals here on student visas to extend their work permits after they’ve graduated one college and are waiting to enroll in another. The assumption is that the degree is of such practical value that the employer or university itself is willing to pay for the training.
@gearmom is absolutely right; it’s silly to think that a well-educated Nigerian is going to be satisfied with only a baccalaureate in engineering!
Sounds good but I didn’t get the impression that Gigi is as negative on Dartmouth as she’s being advised she should be.
^Dartmouth may still be in the running. For someone who truly loves the great outdoors, it is unsurpassed. But, no international is going to settle for a bachelor’s in engineering. That’s a red-herring.
I’m not sure exactly what my post-undergrad plans are. My original plan was the military, but I’m having second thoughts. And third and fourth too lol.
I may change my mind in the future, but right now, I don’t see myself going to grad school. I’m not really considering job prospects either. I want to found a start-up, and generally freelance in the tech industry. I know, not very concrete and certainly not advised, but well, that’s how I feel right now.
@circuitrider Georgia Tech neither offers full scholarships nor meets 100% of demonstrated need for internationals.
I’m still on neutral ground. I’m very grateful that you’re all taking the time to compare the advantages and disadvantages of each school.
^This is good. Each time we hear from the OP, we get a little more information.
This sounds like it might have been a match:
https://www.umb.edu/in_the_community/business_development_resources/vdc
Unfortunately, it’s not UMass/Amherst, it’s UMass/Boston
Dartmouth:
This sounds pretty ideal, but, begs further details:
http://www.den.dartmouth.edu/
Wesleyan:
Less techie, but, the structure is there:
http://engageduniversity.blogs.wesleyan.edu/category/grants-funding/page/2/
@gigichuck So you are now thinking of 4-5 years of undergrad school in the US and then returning to Nigeria for a start–up?
@Yes. Perhaps not straight away. Perhaps not Nigeria.
@circuitrider
I’m not understanding this objection. Isn’t Dartmouth’s AB/BE the same degree as other undergraduate engineering programs? Why wouldn’t that route appeal to a prospective engineer? Again, I know very little about engineering but from my perspective in an underdeveloped country overrun with consultants – both governmental and NGO based engineers, tech specialists, economists – Dartmouth is a significant player.
@gigichuck, At your age you’re not expected to know where you’ll be in ten years, and it’s a waste of energy to try to micromanage your career path when you’re still in high school. You have terrific options and while the outcome may vary depending on which you choose, you can’t make a wrong decision. I think the point at which technology, engineering and development economics intersect is a really exciting place to be right now, especially in underdeveloped parts of Africa, Asia and South America.You’ll find amazing opportunities at any of your three top choices.
@momrath Dartmouth is different. Almost all engineering programs are a four year ABET accredited BS in engineering. Dartmouth has a liberal arts four year BA in engineering science. Then, you have to take another year or year and a half to get your ABET program a BE apparently or you won’t be able to work as an engineer. That’s not much different than simply getting a liberal arts degree and then engineering grad school except it is probably MORE expensive. A grad degree, for a student like Gigi, should be fully funded. So she would have a BA and an MS for less money probably than the Dartmouth way. As an engineering student, you really just want a 4 year BS in E/CE and then you are done. Hopefully that fifth year or year and a half is fully funded by Dartmouth and hopefully Gigi’s family can afford the extra year with 4-5k. Their original budget was 2k a year. They are already stretching. Dartmouth will probably cost them 22k. They were probably hoping for 8k. I bet Amherst comes in far more affordable and helps with $ for warm clothes and dorm supplies.
And at @momrath, I believe she is still 15 years old which is why we were more safety concerned.
@gearmom, Thanks for the explanation. So whether funding is guaranteed for Year 5 would be a major consideration.
@momrath I don’t know what you would exactly do with a BA in engineering science, not engineering. You could never get a PE. The fifth year is a major consideration and I know the @gigichuck has said that grad school was not what she wants but for all intents and purposes, Dartmouth is doing just that. A BA and then optional post grad work for engineering qualification. And you don’t even get a bump from a masters.
@gigichuck Hi. I’m a current high school senior who uh, spent a ridiculous amount of time dreaming about Dartmouth. I don’t want to let my research go to waste, so I’ll just share some stuff I think you might like.
Dartmouth has the DALI lab, which allow you to be actively involved in developing and/or designing websites and apps for their clients. The nice thing is that their wages are better than the other work study jobs. Here’s the link: http://dali.dartmouth.edu/
Dartmouth also has WISP, which is the Women in Science Project. You’re able to conduct research as a freshman in all fields of science and math (such as computer science), be matched with a faculty mentor, and it counts as work study. Attached is the link: http://students.dartmouth.edu/wisp/
They also have the DEN Living Learning Community which really focuses on the start up culture. Here’s the site: http://students.dartmouth.edu/living-learning/communities/shared-interest-communities/den-residence
Also things which might of interest are the Stamps Scholarship. Paganucci Fellows, Dartmouth Center for Advancement of Learning, and Dickey Center Internships. Plus since the winter break at Dartmouth is 6 weeks, there’s the opportunity to have 1-4 week externships with Dartmouth alumni, and travel abroad.
Dartmouth also has its negatives, but it is a school with a lot to offer.
I could also go the CS at Dartmouth route?
@gigichuck That would be safer IMO.
I kind of think, you are going to choose Dartmouth because it is Ivy League. It will just be something you’ll get through. You find a circle of friends and just get through it together.
I think they are a work hard, play hard group with a bro code. It will be tough to be more isolated somewhere with a long winter. You will really need proper winter clothes which will be an extra cost. In January, you could be at 0 degrees. The winter will be from November to the end of March. You should try to get some sun throughout the winter. It’s important to avoid becoming too sad. Also you should not walk around at night alone. They’ll be partying at least three nights a week. Probably Thursday through Saturday. Hopefully the DOC has low cost or free outings.
I woke up feeling certain I would pick Amherst, then as the day progressed I started to re-think it. I’m trying to compare them both accurately. The Amherst route has been mapped out here with all its advantages, so I wanted to see what would be said about the Dartmouth CS route.
The Ivy brand is certainly tipping the scales in Dartmouth’s direction, but I know both are equally prestigious. So right now it’s more a question of which is for me.
In terms of academics, which do you think would be more intense, even a little bit more?
Also, I don’t know if any of you may be able to answer this but how hard would it be to play soccer for either of the teams?
@PengsPhils CS at Amherst vs Dartmouth?
Hello everyone! Wish I had found this thread way earlier. Is any international student out there who received full ride to Wellesley College?
International perspective here.
I seriously don’t think Dartmouth College has that much more international name recognition than Amherst College. You’d have to explain that it’s actually a research university, and you’d have to explain that it’s part of the Ivy League, which will then make people nod their heads, though they won’t really know what that is anyway, and it’s still far off from the name recognition Harvard might get (or Columbia or MIT, for that matter). You might just as well explain that Amherst is a Little Ivy - “like Harvard, just for undergrad”. People who don’t know anything about US colleges will have to take your word for it anyway. People who do will know Amherst.
However, the only person who can find out for sure right now is you. You’ve been immersed in this site for a year. Take a step back. Ask people around you. I have a hunch that, if name recognition in Africa were what you’d care most about, you ought to have applied to Oxford or Cambridge in the UK.
Nor is there any point in going to Dartmouth for engineering - you’d need funding for a fifth year whichever you choose for undergrad. If you want to be in the tech industry anyway, choose CS. It will make visa applications SO much easier.
Listen to the people who tell you where you’d be happier, get more support, find your people (by which I don’t necessarily mean Nigerians…). You haven’t experienced a New England winter yet. You’re planning a huge step. You can’t afford to stumble and fail your freshman year.