Additionally to the frat culture, just based on the location, there will be a winter sport culture. My concern is that with the prevalence Greek life and the expense of skiing, that @gigichuck will be a little left behind or limited socially. The long winters can be hard.
Is the Ivy League brand driving the Dartmouth choice?
@gearmom, last I knew, a day ski pass for students was only $20, but I would bet only a small fraction of kids take advantage of it. Dartmouth is much more than a ski hill and Greek life. I do wonder if the IVY brand is swaying her.
@CottonTales Oh I doubt they go to Dartmouth ski hill. But if those kids are anything like the rest of NE, they are looking to ski and that is an expensive hobby. http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/best-colleges-for-skiing-snowboarding/ Dartmouth is number 6 for best ski colleges. Killington, Okemo, Sugarbush, all in easy striking distance. And the White Mountains is you drove a bit more.
@gigichuck: this is a big cultural difference with many countries in the world. American young adults aren’t served low-alcohol beverages like beer or wine when they eat with their parents. They drink water, sodas, or milk. So, drinking alcohol becomes this big, “risque” thing to do. While in many cultures raiding your parents’ liquor cabinet when you’re 14 is a common occurence, it’s also seen as a proof you’re dumb and immature and, well, 14. Doing the same when you’re 18 would be considered immature. Getting drunk to the point you’re throwing up is not seen as fun and not seen as “normal” (although it’s certainly done). But for many American freshmen, drinking so much alcohol that they can’t talk, or stand properly, is “normal”, “part of college”, what freshmen call “fun”. As someone said in a thread, no one goes to a party to talk. Even at non party colleges, there’s vomit in the freshman bathrooms most weekends in the Fall. They drink so much they have no idea what they’ve done (although it’s usually recorded on phones and posted online), it takes them most of Saturday to recover, then they start again and they have a bad headache most of Sunday. You’ll see references to “pregame”. To pregame is to get drunk on hard alcohol like vodka, in your room, so that you arrive at the Saturday football or basketball game relatively drunk (you have to be able to walk). You do that because you won’t be served alcohol in the stadium, although if you just tailgate (ie., watch the game from the parking lot with lots of people who’ve come for the same purpose) you’ll likely score some beer. You’ll also see references to “pong”. It’s not ping pong; it’s a game whereby you must drink a whole glass of alcohol every time you can’t place a ping pong ball into a cup far away from you. Obviously the more you drink the less you can aim and the less likely you are to hit the cup.
There are lots of freshmen who don’t like to drink and don’t want to drink. Sometimes, it’s difficult because all their friends go and drink at parties, so it’s not as much fun, which is why it’s important to “find your own people” who are into the same things you are, and attend a college where there’s a lot of free entertainment on campus. Most colleges have been improving on that front. Their goal is to provide plenty of altneratives to students getting drunk/high.
Some colleges have “substance free” dorms for students who don’t want to deal with roommates throwing up, devastated lounges, and drug vapors.
This is for colleges that don’t have an oversize party reputation.
Dartmouth is like that, but… magnified.
^ @MYOS1634 True but sometimes the “substance free” dorms also have students who have trouble with substances and are trying to come clean.
@gigichuck, I’ve been popping in and out of this thread and may have missed the part about what you’re tentatively planning to do after completing your undergraduate education in the U.S. We are an American family who have lived in a developing country (in Asia) for 20+ years. My son graduated from Williams and in my opinion received the best undergraduate education possible. For that reason I have been heartened by your recognition of the quality of education offered by LACs and your acceptance to two of the best.
But – there’s always a but, isn’t there? – having said that I would note that academically excellent LACs (like Amherst and Wesleyan) have limited international name recognition in Asia and I would think even less so in Africa. If your game plan is eventually to return to Nigeria or another part of Africa, then I would not take Dartmouth’s name and status as an Ivy League school lightly.
Secondly, although I personally counselled my son not to pursue an undergraduate professional degree (architecture in his case) and although I believe that an undergraduate liberal arts degree + a graduate professional degree is the ideal combination, there is no question but that it can be an expensive proposition. I don’t know how engineering fares graduate school grants, I would look into the cost of this before walking away from an undergraduate degree in engineering.
I think a lot of high school students gravitate toward career paths that they can name – engineer, architect (and also doctor, lawyer though those are not undergraduate degrees in America). But after they are exposed to the breadth of a liberal arts education (not necessarily at a liberal arts college) they change their majors to something less directed and more abstract. Engineering may be the right course for you, or you may be just as satisfied with a BA in CS or something else STM related. Only you can make that decision, but it’s an important one.
Dartmouth’s culture does contain a fair amount of sports and partying. So does Amherst’s, but over the past ten years or so Amherst has actively combatted their negative stereotypes and which (in my non-insider opinion) Dartmouth has just begun to address. I would suggest you reach out to a few Dartmouth students with backgrounds similar to yours. (I’m sure the admissions office would help you make contact) and ask them for more information on what to expect.
Don’t get me wrong. My gut reaction would be “Choose Amherst!” but I don’t think you can make this decision without considering your long term life goals and your own cultural prejudices.
At risk of muddying the waters, I’d suggest you pursue the waitlists at Swarthmore and Columbia, for engineering plus cultures that might be better fits for you.
^@momrath, you missed the piece where we discussed the fact that Dartmouth does not have a genuine undergraduate engineering degree, but, rather a B.A. degree that entitles one to pursue a genuine undergraduate engineering degree (a B.E.) so long as you are willing to put in an extra year to year and a half in order to complete 9 additional credits. Hence, LACs like Amherst and Wesleyan are still on the table.
Also, if we’re going to probe the whole recognition aspect of this, it is my understanding that the principal obstacle to LACs being given the recognition they deserve in Asia especially is that the word “college” translates as “high school” in many parts of the world. Well, as providence would have it, of the three prominent American institutions under consideration, only Wesleyan has the word, “university” after its name. 
@momrath No waitlist at Swarthmore 
Columbia and some others.
@circuitrider Yup. Gigi would absolutely HAVE to finish that final fifth year or year and a half fully funded. Or else a 4 year BA in CS is better. Probably the majority of E/CE grads end up in software anyway.
Anyway with a BA in CS, she’d be ready to work without grad if she chooses and a myriad of international companies will be familiar with Amherst and Wesleyan (University 
) It is a professional degree where she will ultimately be judged on her performance. Same with engineering.
@circuitrider, I understand that a Dartmouth B.E. means 5.0+ years and that may or may not be entirely funded. My point is that if the OP wants to pursue engineering from day one, then Dartmouth is a better choice than Amherst or Wesleyan.
Educational name recognition is very important to Asian employers, both in the private and public sectors. I don’t have experience in Africa, but I would think it’s much the same. LACs, even top rated ones, get blank stares. Universities with global name recognition – Ivy league + Stanford, MIT and some others – get respect. A graduate degree from a Big Name university would compensate, but the cost may be problematic. I really don’t know what it costs to get an advanced degree in engineering.
@gigichuck, Do you mean you weren’t waitlisted or that you’re not pursuing the waitlists? Sorry, I might have misread your results.
@momrath You’d want your engineering masters with a thesis to be fully funded. Thus staying in America for grad school, Amherst or Wesleyan would be understood.
@momrath I got waitlisted at Columbia. Rejected at Swarthmore.
@gearmom, I guess my question is: Is it common for an engineering masters to be fully funded, especially for international students? If it is, then yes, I would agree that a BA from an academically rigorous LAC would be a good entree to a graduate degree in engineering at a U.S. university. If no, then the OP is going to be in the same financial straits in 4 years, assuming she still wants to pursue engineering.
@gigichuck, I’d suggest you pursue the waitlist at Columbia then.
@momrath I will, but I have next to impossible chances of getting off
@momrath If her goal, as I understand it is the military, I think she’d find more work is CS than engineering unless she wants to work for military contractors. I have no idea how clearances will work for an international.
But anyway, she needs to sort the Dartmouth conundrum because she really doesn’t want a BA in engineering science.
@momrath I don’t think it’s uncommon to have funded post grad engineering but @MYOS1634 will know for sure. I didn’t pay for mine. I’m sure @MYOS1634 understood the prestige footprint of Dartmouth while suggesting Amherst though.
@gigichuck, could you expand a bit on your post-undergraduate thinking? For sure, things may change a lot over the ensuing 4 to 5 years, but it’s good to have start thinking about how to prepare – both in education and finances – for potential options.
If the OP were that desperate to pursue engineering “from day one” she’d have applied to Georgia Tech. She obviously wants what a liberal arts and science curriculum offers which is exposure to a broad curriculum. The chief advantage of the Dartmouth program is that she won’t have to change schools at the end of three years as would be the case were she to pursue a dual degree. But, I’d rather change schools - assuming I’ve had a happy and successful three years at Wesleyan or Amherst - than be stuck at Dartmouth, if it doesn’t suit me socially “from day one.”
@circuitrider, The OP recently said that she would “prefer engineering” and indicated that Dartmouth’s engineering program would a plus for her. Neither she nor I said she was “that desperate to pursue engineering.” It’s understood that non-engineering majors at LACs are an alternate option for her.
I would consider that a significant advantage. I don’t pretend to be knowledgeable in engineering, but I’ve seen enough comments on CC to know that 3+2 programs have their own disadvantages. How does financial aid work in a 3+2 program? Is it guaranteed by both schools?
I’m a diehard member of the liberal arts college fan club, but I also acknowledge that employers in the developing world, both in the private and public sectors, value professional degrees and universities with high name recognition, so I don’t think she should discount Dartmouth even though Amherst or Wesleyan may be better fits for her at this point in her life.