<p>Wouldn’t it then be most advantageous for this person to simply attend a B-school for undergraduate?</p>
<p>“Wouldn’t it then be most advantageous for this person to simply attend a B-school for undergraduate?”</p>
<p>Well, there is some truth to this. For example, there are a fair number of students from Wharton (seems to have many students working in IB on the West Coast), Hass, Richard Ivey and Marshall (to a lesser extent) on the West Coast going into IB. However, schools with economics departments that offer finance and accounting courses, like Stanford, UCLA (also have MBA schools) as well as CMC have many going into IB. CMC economics is unique for a liberal arts school because of its pre-professional focus.</p>
<p>I am not saying any of the above applies to every situation. Of course, on occasions, there are students who may major in a subject totally unrelated to business, finance, economics or accounting and still find there way into IB. There are no hard and fast rules, but I think we are talking about what is the easiest path to a job in an industry where the jobs are few and far between.</p>
<p>I think you guys are talking about two completely different things. Lots of liberal arts students go into i-banking without a ton of accounting experience. If CMC students are being asked accounting questions during an interview it can only be because they are interning for a job in operations or in the back office. People in the front office, where the money is being made, are much more likely to have degrees in Math, Econ and even Physics for some of the algorithmic computations that go into packaging derivatives.</p>
<p>JW, do you have any direct experience with front office investment banking interviews for summer internships and full-time positions? Trust me, you will be asked specific questions on accounting and linking the income statement, balance sheet and cash flow statement. You will also be asked questions regarding a company’s enterprise value and the various ways to calculate its market value.</p>
<p>I am sure there are students who can’t answer these questions and still get front office jobs, but like I said in a previous post, it will not help their chances against the multitude of kids who are clamoring for these jobs.</p>
<p>I last thing: most investment banking jobs have nothing to do with packaging derivatives. Most of the jobs are in merger and acquisitions, leveraged finance, fixed income sales and trading and equity capital markets. Undergraduate students are rarely recruited for those highly quantitative jobs.</p>
<p>Well, don’t take my word for it. Here’s a powerpoint presentation from the Goldman-Sachs website. They’re a pretty good investment banking firm. According to them, there are three basic types of business interviews: 1) Historical, 2) Behavioral and 3) and, Case Study.</p>
<p>Historical Format - </p>
<p>If you remember anything about your college interview, this will sound very familiar; it’s about you and what you bring to the table. Poise and presentation skills are important. Your resume will pretty much guide the discussion in the same way that your application might have guided your college interviewer.</p>
<p>Behavioral -</p>
<p>NOTE: Goldman Sachs says, that their interviews are “typically” of this type. The Behavioral style of interview is also known as a “competency interview”. Be prepared to give past examples of teamwork, leadership and problem solving. Nowhere does it mention a need to know double-entry bookkeeping.</p>
<p>Case Study - Tests your problem solving ability; the basic factual situations are supplied by the interviewer and you are given an open-ended question that may involve basic math skills. The emhasis is on how you arrived at your answer rather than it’s correctness. The Goldman website (and virtually every other website I’ve visited) suggests that this format is most commonly used by management consulting firms.
[Goldman</a> Sachs | How to Apply - Interview Skills](<a href=“http://www2.goldmansachs.com/careers/how-to-apply/internships-and-entry-level-positions/interview-skills/index.html]Goldman”>http://www2.goldmansachs.com/careers/how-to-apply/internships-and-entry-level-positions/interview-skills/index.html)</p>
<p>JW, my son was interviewed by Goldman Sachs and a bunch of other investment banks. They all ask the technical questions I illustrated for you in the previous post. He knows quite a few people who were asked the same questions. Why don’t you google “investment banking interview technical questions” or visit Wall Street Oasis and research the subject. Please do some more research before we continue this conversation.</p>
<p>[Investment</a> Banking Interview Questions | The Prospectus - Musings on Investment Banking](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetprep.com/blog/hello-world/]Investment”>http://www.wallstreetprep.com/blog/hello-world/)</p>
<p>[Investment</a> Banking Interviews: Comprehensive Guide | Mergers & Inquisitions](<a href=“http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-superday-interview-guide/]Investment”>Investment Banking Interview Questions & Answers)</p>
<p>[WSO</a> Technical Interview Guide | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/wso-technical-interview-guide]WSO”>Investment Banking Interview Prep Course | Wall Street Oasis)</p>
<p>[Goldman</a> Sachs Interview - Who’s Been Through It? | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/goldman-sachs-interview-whos-been-through-it]Goldman”>Goldman Sachs Interview - Who's Been Through It for Internships? | Wall Street Oasis)</p>
<p>Those cites were pretty interesting, particularly the “Goldman Sachs Interview” comments. Almost all of them mention that “fit” questions dominate the first round of interviews. And, full-time positions definitely involve the most grueling questioning (although, one interviewee who went on and on about it, seemed to draw some skepticism) but, it would seem to me that by the time you are a senior, if you don’t have some summer interning under your belt, you would be at a disadvantage anyway.</p>
<p>But, here’s an interesting quote:
CDNMonkey@2/26/07 11:40 PM</p>
<p>That may explain some of the discrepancy in our perceptions.</p>
<p>But, the real question is this - and thank you for your help on this - if all of this technical advice can be purchased for $50 off the internet, why on earth should someone shell out $200,000 for the privilege of taking accounting at CMC for three years?
[WSO</a> Technical Interview Guide | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/wso-technical-interview-guide]WSO”>WSO Investment Banking Interview Course | Wall Street Oasis)</p>
<p>“But, the real question is this - and thank you for your help on this - if all of this technical advice can be purchased for $50 off the internet, why on earth should someone shell out $200,000 for the privilege of taking accounting at CMC for three years?”</p>
<p>If you think you can learn the answers to the technical questions (remember, you don’t what they are going to ask), then go ahead and see how it goes without taking any accounting or corporate finance courses beforehand. I wouldn’t advise it, but if you think you can develop a good understanding of the financial statements and corporate valuation without taking college courses, good luck. </p>
<p>A lot of people would ask why would anyone pay $200,000 for any college. Personally, I would have some trouble shelling out that much money for a degree in art history or sociology. I can’t tell you how many recent graduates I encounter who have majored in subjects like this who now have minimum wage jobs.</p>
<p>So, basically, you’re saying that someone who’s spent three years of their lives studying to be an accountant and suddenly wakes up senior year and decides they want to make a lot of money doing mergers, has a good shot at landing a job at Goldman Sachs?</p>
<p>If you graduate from Pomona with a high GPA, like 3.6+, you have a good chance of being employed in an IB. After all, banks recruit art and history majors with little business exposure at Yale, Harvard or Cornell. You just have to work a little harder in networking. You can utilize the career office at CMC as well. There is no discrimination for Pomona students.</p>
<p>JW, your post is a non sequitur and not what I said. I think I am finished with this topic. I know something about the recruiting process for investments banks and people reading this thread can make up their own minds.</p>
<p>parent 57-
do you know if IB and consulting recruiting is done only for local offices like LA and SF or if you apply and state with your city preference? The reason I ask is I know west coast offices are often smaller than those in the east and was wondering if there’s more competition because of less employment oppertunities</p>
<p>kingsquirrel, good question. Many of the IB’s and consulting firms that recruit on campus are looking to fill full-time positions or internships locally or on the West Coast, but you are allowed to state your city preference (if they request it) when you submit your resume. You would think it may be more difficult to get these jobs on the West Coast because of the size of the offices, but OTOH you don’t have all the students from colleges on the East Coast competing for those West Coast positions. I would call it a wash.</p>
<p>^^ROTFLMAO - No, you just have every accounting and finance major in the University of California state system, plus Stanford, USC, and Pepperdine!!</p>
<p>Actually, California has by far the largest representation of west coast students in top eastern schools. Many of them request west coast offices after 4 years of harsh winters in the east coast. There’s no local geographic advantages for big BB banks. Of course, you have advantage to local, small regional banks who don’t recruit in the east coast.
My son, a Bay Area kid graduated from Wharton, and has worked on both coasts. Now, he’s back in NYC.</p>
<p>My D, a Pomona grad in economics, worked in the east coast after graduation, got her MBA in the east coast and has remained there.</p>
<p>Your profile tells a different story. You are a retail stockbroker who hasn’t worked in NY for a long time. Plus you don’t work in “front office” finance.
IB bankers, hedge funds don’t see or meet with stockbrokers. They have their own traders.</p>
<p>Look at Penn’s incoming class profile, there are more CA students at Penn than any other state, including NY
[Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/]Penn”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/)
Wharton is now 30% Asian and the majority of them come from CA.
[Wharton</a> Undergraduate | Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/undergrad/life-at-wharton/class-profile.cfm]Wharton”>Student Profiles - Undergraduate)</p>
<p>At Columbia’s incoming student profile, CA sends more students there than any other state except NY.
<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/stats.php[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/stats.php</a></p>
<p>McGill, I see you’ve peppered these forum promoting your blog.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is just absurd.</p>
<p>PS. I see your posts have been pulled by the moderators.</p>
<p>Hey guys, I’m asking this for your honest input. I’m in the midwest so I do not know how the universities are viewed out west. Could everyone tier the colleges for me out there? From what I can gather it seems to be:</p>
<p>Tier 0: Stanford
Tier 1: Pomona, CalTech
Tier 2; Berkeley, Claremont colleges
Tier 3: USC, UCLA
Tier 4: Other UCs</p>
<p>I’m sure I am missing some like Reed and Occidental but i don’t know where to place them. How does the above look for those in the know (employers, etc.)</p>