<p>I debated for a while about which forum I should post this thread in, but I have finally come to the conclusion that the Parents Forum frequenters will provide me with the unbiased replies that I seek. Here is the situation:</p>
<p>About thirty students from my high school-ten of whom I have known very intimately since elementary school-were recently able to travel overseas to participate in an academic-oriented competition. Before leaving for the trip, the students had to sign a contract, stating they were aware that no drinking of alcoholic beverages, drug use, etc. would be allowed. At some point during the trip, despite multiple reminders being issued by advisors while the group was overseas, five students were caught drinking. According to the contract that they had previously signed, the consequence was that they would be put on a plane and sent home immediately after the incident and would be removed from this particular academic program. However, none of the students were forced to return home and were able to enjoy the remainder of their trip. </p>
<p>When the group returned as a whole, students who were not involved in the incident, but were nearby or witnessed something when the incident occurred were essentially interrogated/questioned by the administration and, supposedly, the local police department. One of the students who was caught drinking was recently admitted as an Early Admission applicant to a university ranked as one of the top 5 in the nation according to USNEWS. When the punishment was finally issued to the students, many were dissatisfied with the decision. The five who were involved were suspended for two school days, but the suspension will not go on their permanent record; they were not expelled from the program, and the universities to which they applied will have no knowledge of the incident. </p>
<p>The silent majority of people who went on the trip with them and witnessed the entire incident are outraged because they feel that the punishment does not fit the crime; they feel that administration is being purposely soft on all of them because of the one student with the admission to the top school being involved. With the exception of Berkeley and UCLA, students from my high school rarely apply to top 30 schools and since having an applicant get into the school to which this particular student was admitted is somewhat rare, the other students are convinced that the punishment is a "pathetic" way to ensure that he doesn't get rescinded. </p>
<p>I find this behavior to be a complete embarrassment to our school and to the academic program that I am a part of and work hard to improve. I am very disappointed in the students who were involved.</p>
<p>I am curious to know...what are your opinions on the topic?</p>
<p>I agree with you that it seems like the violation is being glossed over. However, I also think you should let it go. You weren’t involved (good for you!), but you also don’t carry the responsibility to administer the consequences. That is the decision of others, and they’ve made their decision, so just move on and look forward to your own life.</p>
<p>It’s easy to spend too much time and energy on other people’s behaviors. It’s a trap. You can direct your energy, instead, to things that will directly benefit you and those you care about.</p>
<p>The 5 students obviously violated the terms of the agreement they signed. Fortunately that drinking incident abroad didn’t adversely affect the trip for the others who played by the rules. Hopefully they drank in moderation and were not intoxicated.</p>
<p>I’m not condoning what they did. They broke their promise as I already acknowledged. When my D was in Europe during her two HS trips, she also had a drink or maybe even two during the trip. In her case, there was a notice given to us parents that if we did NOT want our sons or daughters to drink we were to sign a form. Otherwise, they would not monitor our kids and any alcohol consumption. Important to point out that these were NON school sanctioned trips in the case of my D.</p>
<p>At some point in life you discover that life is unfair. Maybe to you, maybe to someone close to you, maybe to other groups of people. There often little that you can do about it when it happens to you or others. In this case some students behaved poorly and were insufficiently punished according to you. Perhaps they received some leniency that you think that they don’t deserve.</p>
<p>Perhaps you might need some leniency some day. Or maybe a friend. Or a relative. Would you want that leniency?</p>
<p>I appreciate your opinions and I will admit that when I wrote this I was a bit heated, but I am in no way outraged. I am embarrassed for the school and disappointed in the students involved as I have known them for almost my entire educational career. Disappointment and embarrassment do not equate to outrage.
My description was written to reflect the outrage of my peers and I apologize if I have given anyone the impression that the most fitting punishment would be one that forced the students to recreate the rowing scene in Ben-Hur.</p>
<p>That’s your embarrassment though. The school will go on. Lots of big-name schools have embarrassments but they get through them and continue educating students.</p>
<p>People will disappoint in life. It could be a parent telling you that they will take you someplace at a certain time and they forget or are too busy or maybe your parents divorce or a brother or sister doesn’t live up to expectations or a friend cheats on an exam, cheats on a friend with another friend, etc. It could be your president getting caught telling a fib or your senator admitting to an affair. In most cases, we move on with our lives, sometimes angry, sometimes hurt, often disappointed. Welcome to life.</p>
<p>If the students had been sent home immediately, would there have been any affect on the competition that they were a part of? Would it have ruined other students’ chances for doing well in the competition?</p>
<p>My own kid was part of an athletic group where a few of the athletes drank during an away meet where they were staying overnight. Unlike your situation, the administration chose to make an example of the students, and went to great lengths to find out who did what and when and where. Ultimately, two students were expelled, a few others were suspended, but the entire team, and the entire school, actually, suffered because there was so much disagreement and dissension about the actions the school took. My kid was so upset -mostly at the students who drank, but also about the fact that it basically eliminated their chances for winning the state championship they were poised to win, that it ruined her junior year. Although the students were punished according to the school rules, I’m not so sure that it was worth it. Even parents were taking sides, some wanting to sue the school, and it divided a campus so sharply that it took several years to recover, seriously.
I think your administration wants to make this go away, and seeing that they are in the business of education-not morality- I think it may be the wise choice. I agree that it’s hard to take when you see people flaunt the rules and get away with it, but do realize that they aren’t really getting away with it. Their standing among their peers has dropped considerably, and I expect that they do have regret. </p>
<p>Be glad that you have the good sense to not look for trouble, and move on.</p>
<p>I think that next year they may have an even bigger problem since all the students will know that the threatened consequences won’t be followed up on. </p>
<p>There may be other factors you’re not aware of. It likely would have been an issue if they put the students on a plane back without a chaperone and maybe (likely) none of the staff wanted to return. They also likely had prepaid tickets that would incur a huge financial penalty if the return flight changed and who’d pay for that? The staff should have thought these logistics through before issuing the threat but they probably were just hoping the threat itself, empty though it was, would be adequate to encourage the students to behave. Realistically, when it came down to it, they also probably didn’t want to ruin the 5 students’ adventure and decided to go soft for that reason. Parents sometimes do this as well. Hopefully the administration learned something from this and will have a plan for next time they can practically and logistically follow up on.</p>
<p>The good news is that this doesn’t really affect you or anyone else other than those 5. I know it’s irritating to think they ‘got away with something’ and disappointing that the administration doesn’t follow through with what they say they will but again - that doesn’t affect you so it’s best to perhaps shake your head at the situation and just move on. </p>
<p>^ OP - Twenty years from now, you’ll look back and see that there are some issues worth getting excited about … and some issues that are best cast into your wake. You’ll get bad Professors in college, bad bosses at work, bad administrators, bad service people, bad clerks, etc. Life is like that. Just focus on doing your best, and trying to be the type of person you want to be. Because a lot of “bad” in life simply isn’t worth concerning yourself about.</p>
<p>and, supposedly, the local police department</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>what?</p>
<p>Am I misunderstanding something? the police have NO jurisdiction over something that happened in another country. They wouldn’t investigate this. These kids broke no laws in the US.</p>
<p>If you feel so strongly about it, and are prepared for what it will do to your reputation in school, you could write a letter to the school board - not to express your disappointment about the kids, but the poor example being set by administrators who don’t keep their word.</p>
Exactly what I was wondering. The local police aren’t going to interview kids because they had a drink in a foreign country. They did not break any US laws.</p>
<p>@ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad: Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.</p>
<p>In General: It is not my goal to change their punishment. The topic has caused quite a bit of controversy at my school and I was interested to read your opinions. Please do not misinterpret my reason for posting this, which is only to try and broaden my perspective as I read all of your opinions. Thank you.</p>
<p>Agree that that is probably the biggest problem that the school will face in the future. Or that if the school does follow through with heavy punishment that it threatens, it will find more controversy about favoritism, etc…</p>
<p>If they had written the contract to say that “punishment may include [whatever light punishment], [whatever medium punishment], [whatever heavy punishment], …, depending on the severity of the violation”, it would likely have been less controversial, assuming that the violation was minor. Threatening a huge punishment and then not following through hurts the school’s credibility in these matters.</p>
<p>Or the school will decide not to participate in this endeavor in the upcoming years…too much angst and trouble. Plus what if some kid had really gotten drunk and something very bad happened. </p>
<p>It would be too bad if some bad apples ruined it for everyone, but that is what could happen.</p>
<p>Agreed. Plus, this could breed cynicism among the school community, which may have already happened from the OP’s description.</p>
<p>The school has lost some of its power to enforce rules. If my S were at this school and were to run afoul of some rule in the future, I might push for the school to disregard his violation based on precedent.</p>
<p>The school has a responsibility to enforce rules/punishments equitably, not to play favorites. It seems to be sending the message that rules can be bent if the school reputation is on the line.</p>
<p>Agree that if the local police in your hometown were involved that was wrong. The punishment fits the crime in my opinion. For a school system to say they will “put kids on a plane and immediately send them home” feels implausible to me. I have a hard time imaging a school purchasing one way tickets and putting kids on a plane, if anything my guess is that contract will be reworded for future kids.</p>