My S1 ChemE major took 4 years of Spanish and 2 years of Latin. The Latin he did for himself. The Spanish was a more practical matter. It opens up your job opportunities if you are fairly fluent in another language, especially Spanish given we live in Texas. A bonus to the Spanish (or most languages) is that getting good scores on the AP exams leads to cheap elective credits.
We have a good friend who is a chemist. He plays the guitar and is very interested in Brazilian music. He now collaborates with a lab in Brazil. You never know where life will take you. I can tell you if you get one language nailed down the subsequent ones (especially within the Indo-European language group) become much much easier.
And some people will really never become fluent in a language even after 4 years of HS. Everyone is different and can’t be talented in every area. You can still be an accomplished and interesting person without knowing a foreign language. If the student is interested it’s a great thing but when a student has zero interest and zero talent that’s OK too.
Foreign language is considered one of the five core classes for admission purpose (even in Texas).
AP stats, which is an ap lite (for kids who wont/can’t take calc), is less valuable for academic rigor or admission purpose than a foreign language, for instance.
If your high school 's program isn’t useful, look into the closest community college’s. Level 2&3 (a year in community college foreign language, which for Spanish tends to have a more conversational bend) would be equivalent to reaching high school level4. This way your child would get the benefit of reaching a level in foreign language that she can actually use, and get bonus points for rigor.
(Taking the minimum is rarely effective when you want to be competitive.)
Check with your guidance counselor that your child will get the “most rigorous” check with only two years - that’d only be possible at lower performing schools to the best of my knowledge.
Also, since Texas University admissions depend on ranking, how would that affect rank?
For colleges, more broadly: it’s a differentiator, in the same way that AP calculus is a differentiator.
However, it affects different majors differently - calculus and physics would be more important than FL for engineering; but having only the bare minimum in FL can affect honors college selection and scholarship qualification/awards.
As to being more broadly educated:
First, there’s understanding how language works (which activates the same parts often brain that are necessary for math and music)
Second, there’s developing the ability to think in another language (that requires more than 2years) and thus creating new neuronal pathways.
Third, there’s the new perspective that comes from understanding that everything you take for granted isnt natural, but cultural. That’s critical thinking (broached a little in high school, important in college).
Fourth, no one’s expected to be fluent in 4years. However after 4-5years you can be an independent user, someone who can do what they need to do with the language and understand where others are coming from culturally and linguistically speaking.
Fifth, when you reach that level, you may forget everything, but you’ve created a skill in your brain that will help you pick it back up and learn another language if needed, even if it’s years later.
I think it’s a very rare person who becomes fluent in a language after four years of high school. I know for me it takes a good six months of immersion on top of a decent base. I have zero talent, but I did learn. My father strongly encouraged a gap year to learn a foreign language because he knew his lack had impacted his life as a foreign service officer. I’ve been grateful to him ever since. My knowledge of French and German and (to a lesser extent) Italian greatly enriched my life.
I’m a little puzzled at the seeming denigration of Spanish for AP test purposes. Yes, they’re taught how to speak, but mostly read and write, in a sophisticated, educated-person’s Spanish, possibly Castilian. So what? A person who knows enough of it to do well on an AP test will learn the spoken Spanish vernacular, be it in Texas or Florida, or wherever, fairly quickly. (But not the other way around, btw!) Yes, it can quickly become a practical skill, as opposed to an academic skill.
OP, not that I’m criticizing your choice to not continue the FL if your daughter has very specific other interests, isn’t enjoying it, and can’t fit everything in. But I just want to put it out there – there is nothing wrong or less-preferable to learning Spanish in such a way as to do well on the AP exam.
I believe the poster was referring to the Spanish curriculum in her school/district, not to the AP Spanish curriculum in particular. As someone who took the AP Spanish Language and Literature tests in HS, if there is supposed to be a Castellano focus, then it’s news to be Latin American born teachers.:
In AP Spanish exam, there are listening and speaking parts too. The listening part is tricky as they use audio clips from all over the world, not just south america. I don’t know other schools, but my D’s school did put a lot of emphasis on speaking as they need to give presentations in AP classes from time to time.
It’s hard to find hard proof anywhere exactly what classes colleges do and don’t care about. In my experience this year applying only to top 50 schools and most in the 20 my kid with only 2 years foreign language (and got Bs) has been accepted to every school with exceptional merit aid or special high recognition. He’s going to a top 5 school that highly recommends 4 years of for lang. I’m assuming that colleges could see that he was making an effort and succeeding in areas that weren’t as comfortable to him and that was just as meaningful to them as just sucking it up and taking something you hate and will never be good at. We didn’t take this decision likely and made sure there would be no penalties in terms of rigor assessment first at our school so YMMV.
^ I agree that the first thing is to make sure of the rigor assessment of two years vs. Three.
@MYOS1634, ^^^^ What does that mean? Rigor Assessment of 2 VS 3 years? Can you please explain it to me?
we wrestled with this b/c my son really doesn’t love foreign languages like science and math. But, our school requires at least 3 years of a foreign language to be considered for academic honors diploma. You might just want to make sure with your high school counselor if that is available.
In the Fall of senior year, looking at course selection, your child’s guidance counselor will check a box on the ssr : most rigorous, very rigorous, rigorous (those would the the three boxes for college prep). “Most rigorous” typically means more than the minimum number in all core subjects,a combination of 5 honors or AP per year; some schools may define it as 4years foreign language or calculus and/or all three from bio, chemistry, physics and/or a specific combination of AP’s (with AP -lites counting as less than core or complementary APs). "rigorous " typically means “completed all the college prep requirements”. Very rigorous is in between. For selective private colleges, honors college admissions/scholarships, for students not top 8or 10% to get into ut/tamu, and higher likelihood of being granted your major at ut/tamu, you want “most rigorous”. For strict admission purpose your rank is all that matters but for everything else the assessment of academic rigor by the guidance counselor will be paramount. That is why you must check that your daughter will still be eligible for “most rigorous” if she only completed the basic requirement for foreign language. Askbthevguidance counselor point blank. If she says she wouldn’t, say you’re considering having her take Spanish 2&3at a community college, which should correspond to level4 in high school and would carry over at any Texas University without her having to take the AP test. (if having the extra two semesters at community college level isn’t sufficient then there’s a huge problem at your school so being the issue to pta since for college admissions, dual enrollment is considered equal, if not higher, to AP.)
On a side note, I noticed you mentioned you’d be full pay at top25 universities/LACs (I assume it means you make more than 200k): you may find better bargains for stats in other states. Texas has excellent universities but they can be expensive even instate. Well known is u Alabama’s honors college and automatic scholarship, where you can apply in July with your 1400cr+m/32act and get guaranteed admission to the honors college as well as a full tuition honors scholarship, but there are lots of others, pinned at the top of the fa forum.
UT and A&M don’t use a counselor recommendation so rigor is not assessed in the way described above. For UT the application asks how many credits the student took in each of the core areas. An extra bump is applied in the AI for exceeding the minimum requirements. Will she be penalized for not exceeding them in FL if she exceeds them in math and science? No one knows.
Are you going for minimums or the best education available? In Wisconsin it is common for college bound students to take four years of a foreign language. Four years gets a student through the grammar and other basics- unless the student has places to use the language I would never assume fluency. Just as HS music- vocal or instrumental gives a degree of proficiency I would never assume the comparable fluency. Even if the student never encounters the language or instrument after HS a lot is gained. This gives a more well rounded education that just maxing out on STEM classes. btw- in son’s HS students often took both AP statistics and calculus, students did not substitute one for the other in taking a math class that I was aware of.
OP- think- an education or merely job training? Learning more about another language influences one’s knowledge of how English is constructed. More fun can be had once one has gone beyond the first two years and gains more facility with a language.
Thank you all for opening my eyes and educating me. Daughter will not be happy but I will have her read this thread.
I am so thankful for the information I learn from this site daily. Thanks to the awesome parents!
Well, that beyond the scope of the OP’s question, but I agree with you. Even going through AP is “only” getting one to the intermediate level. Without spending some time in a setting where the foreign language is used 24/7, it’s difficult to gain true proficiency.
I’m going to keep the door open in case she changes her mind about Engineering.
For example, maybe she is analytically minded but opts for Econ instead of Engineering. (That happened to my older kid that went to hs thinking college would be engineering. Ironically it’s the younger one, also strong in math/science, that took a few years to hone in on potential majors. With that kid we had to eventually start playing the “what do you NOT want as a major” game)
you should also consider COLLEGE graduation requirements. Check out a few schools.
My school required language proficiency through level 4 (101, 102, 201, 202). This was required of all students, regardless of major. It could be satisfied with 4+ years at the HS level. The vast majority of students at my school completed this college graduation requirement in high school.
My D has only taken 2 years of Foreign Language in high school. She has been admitted to 2 top 30 schools that recommend 3-4 years of foreign language. Language is not her thing. Instead of language she took AP sciences and Math. She also took the highest level of everything else. If your state inly requires 2 years of a foreign language for the highest level of diploma it will be fine. If you call the schools that is likely what they will tell you. As to taking it in college, lots of schools who require language for a BA do not require it for a BS.