<p>I think it would be impossible to have money as a primary goal and still be a good physician. There are folks like that in every community, but they are a tiny minority.
That kind of doc would be generally shunned by his/her peers and as a result their physician referral base would be non-existent. Not having a love of medicine and a genuine compassion for people would make for a very poor bedside manner (people know when you really care and when you're just going though the motions) and that would make the patient-to-patient referral route likewise small.
Lawsuits and state boards take care of most reckless practitioners eventually, and "drug writers" never last very long under state & FDA scrutiny. Docs trying to create wealth by inappropriate referrals and the like are targets of the Justice Dept., and any unhappy patient or disgruntled employee can file a complaint and perhaps enjoy the rewards that come from being a "whistle-blower".
The fact is, aside from some pretty elite subspecialties, it's hard to make more than $200,000 and easy to make less than $100,000. Considering that I had 10 years of education and training after college, that doesn't seem to me to be a fortune, though it is comfortable.
I have plenty of pts who out-earn me easily, including 2 kinds of pilots (airline and riverboat), a few attorneys, some small business owners and quite a number of salespeople (esp. those in the oil & gas business and shipyard sales in this area).
A few years ago I was listening to Howard Stern (!) and he had Mike Piazza on just after the trade from the Dodgers to the Mets. An irate caller from LA asked Mike how he could abandon his fans just for money (it was, I think, $6,000,000) and Mike asked him what he did for a living. He said "I'm a UPS driver". Mike asked him how much he made and that guy never missed a beat. "Ninety thousand."
Well whatever else they talked about I can't remember, but I certainly was wowed that I could have earned 3/4 of what I was making then by just driving a truck. I would not only have made more money over those years & incurred less debt but I would have had 14 years towards a retirement and lots better benefits than I get now working for myself.
But it's not that, because it's not about the money. What I can deliver means more to people than anything that can be delivered on a truck. Anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't need to even consider medicine as a profession.</p>
<p>so you only make $120,000? w-o-w, i'm certainly surprised. You're a Rheumatologist, right? I was almost sure that most specialties were better paying than that. heck, even plain-old general practitioners and internal meds make a median of about $140K. But I'm only getting this from salary.com, so I don't know what exactly to think.
But, whatever...</p>
<p>"heck, even plain-old general practitioners and internal meds make a median of about $140K. But I'm only getting this from salary.com, so I don't know what exactly to think.
But, whatever..."</p>
<p>Digamma, you're pretty smart....why doesn't pserdish go into family-practice? If he's only making 120k, he's the lowest paid rheumatologist in north america. Either that, or he's only working 3 days a week....what a cushy life! I'd love to have it in the future :)</p>
<p>A subtle difference, but one that must be recognized before choosing between the fields, is that</p>
<p>MBAs - Management skill is not easily taught, and a MBA degree will not open any doors for you if you're not a <em>born</em> leader <em>before</em> entering the program. Also, a good manager doesn't need an MBA to be hired into a position....MBAs compete for management positions against people with Engineering degrees, Physics degrees, no degrees etc. Thus, getting an MBA degree is viewed as a waste of time by many companies. Many companies hire from within...for example, the Directors and VPs in most computer companies have Engineering degrees, not MBAs.</p>
<p>.....thus, MBA is a very fuzzy degree. It's value is not seen abroad in other countries such as Europe, China etc. </p>
<p>M.D. - you don't need to be born a doctor...a degree MAKES you a doctor! The degree is the golden ticket to the job. It doesn't matter how great you are....you could be Einstein himself....but you will <em>NOT</em> be a doctor without a degree. You <em>cannot</em> get a job as a doctor without an M.D. degree by law. Thus, doctors never compete against other people....they're sheltered from external competition.</p>
<p>That's my 2cents.....generally I think MBAs are are almost totally useless.</p>
<p>Obviously, an MBA from an average college is useless. There are so many thousands of schools offering MBA programs these days that companies can really only discern and select the more ideal candidate readily by seeing which college he or she received their degree from. </p>
<p>However, my original post isn't talking about the average MBA; it's talking about MBAs from elite schools such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Wharton. I did not intend to compare the average MBA with the average MD; what I wanted was to compare the average MD with the elite MBAs.</p>
<p>Either that or, its what AN AVG DOC MAKES WORKING FULL TIME. Stop pulling out numbers and give us proof of salaries, after taxes.
Go check out the foums you'll be surprised at responses. You'll also have to note these people are in med school, and are practicing. So they know quite a bit more then you.</p>
<p>"was to compare the average MD with the elite MBAs."</p>
<p>Even the elite MBA is not as good as the worst MD degree....it's hit or miss, depending on the PERSON. The degree is less of a factor than whether or not the PERSON is executive management material. </p>
<p>That is, you may make it into Harvard MBA, but if you're not a good communicator/networker/socialite --- guess what?...that's money that you're going to wasted on the 2-year degree. If you couldn't become a leader in 25yrs, Harvard is not going to make you one in 2 years.</p>
<p>For example, many CEOS who're already leaders int he field, will go back and get an Executive-MBA, just as a showpiece to the board of directors. Everyone knows that a true manager/leader doesn't require a certification (in social life as well as in corporate world).</p>
<p>So, golubb, exactly where in education are you at?</p>
<p>During my shadowing experiences, I learned that many of the doctors I shadowed loved their job and had a passion for medicine. Basically they would not change their career if they could choose again. Even though doctors may not make more than businessmen, etc., the job stabililty is more important in my opinion. Other fields you can get laid off and than have to stress to find a job. I plan to own businesses (what my parents do) while I practice, and I don't think I need a MBA for that.</p>
<p>"During my shadowing experiences, I learned that many of the doctors I shadowed loved their job and had a passion for medicine"</p>
<p>.....exactly my point. Doctors LOVE their jobs....it's one of the best jobs in the industry. Plus, the highest paying as well. Plus the most stable.</p>
<p>not quite the highest paying. but the great thing about being a doc is that pay is assured. sure you can become a lawyer or business-individual, but there seems to be more of a take-a-risk factor in these. not all lawyers are rich and not all businessmen or bankers are rich either, because their pay is so dependent on their success compared to docs.</p>
<p>oh, and I doubt Dr. Sedrish will agree with your other post you wrote after mine. :)</p>
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.....exactly my point. Doctors LOVE their jobs....it's one of the best jobs in the industry. Plus, the highest paying as well. Plus the most stable.
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<p>To assume that all doctors love their job based off what some doctors have told you is presumptuous. While there are many who love their profession, there are many who hate their profession. I have talked to numerous doctors who say if they knew what they were getting themselves into, they would have pursued something else. Then there are doctors who absolutely love their profession and could not see themselves doing anything else. This can be said of any profession--medicine, law, or business.</p>
<p>Many have said that you will not know if you truly want to be a doctor until third year of medical school. That being said, I dont draw conclusions based off what I have been told. Take everything with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>You guys are disgusting the way you talk about money. I am in medical school and I've never had a discussion about salaries with any of my classmates. I'm glad the system works out such that the ones who enter the field for money end up in radiology or dermatology or plastic surgery -- fields in which patient care is less essential and pure medicine is non-existent.</p>
<p>I find your assertions concerning radiologists, dermatologists and plastic surgeons to be extremely inappropriate. Such comments are unlikely to be made by a medical student.</p>
<p>Hello everyone
I am just now a senior in high school.I just recently took a career test and noticed that almost al the jobs it recomended were medical and as well science/engineering based.Now I always felt that engineering in medicine in princlple were somewhat similar because both apply science for humanity's sake.</p>
<p>I am just really wanting to know if I should think about medicine.I do want to help people and I despite being very introverted and not incrediblly social;I have a very strong care for my fellow humans though.
I have done very well at chemistry and biology and other science fields.I have excellent problem solving skills and a great memory.all things I asume a doctor would need.I don't care as much about money as many other's as long as I serve myself and others I am happy and of course have food on the table and a job.</p>
<p>So I guess my question is what type of personailty and personal traits make a good doctor? then I'll decide if I fit them.
Thanks!</p>
<p>There really are no personality traits. Medicine is not something you can decide one day that your going to do. If you really want to know read up on it, and do some soul searching. Think about if you want to put at least 11 years of your life into training to be a doc before practicing. Think about what you will do if you never have time for the fun things you like doing, and whether you can live of life of great sacrifice. A personality won't make a doctor, the persons mindset and drive to be a doc will make them be doc.
To be sure if you really want to do it, shadow a few doctors. But shadow ones in completely diff. fields of medicine. Like pathology, surgery, pediatrics, maybe some type of internal specialists, etc. If you follow them around see their life then you can decide.
Or another career path involving medicine and engineering that you might like is Biomedical Engineering. Look into it.</p>
<p>"You guys are disgusting the way you talk about money. I am in medical school and I've never had a discussion about salaries with any of my classmates. "</p>
<p>well, if you're soooop philanthropic, why didn't you try to get into and academic PhD program instead of the professional (i.e. money-oriented) med school? That way you could have served the public much better.</p>
<p>The only reason to get into med school is to earn $$$...simply because it is a <strong>professional</strong> grad school, not an academic one. Its like a law school, or MBA program.</p>
<p>
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well, if you're soooop philanthropic, why didn't you try to get into and academic PhD program instead of the professional (i.e. money-oriented) med school? That way you could have served the public much better.
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<p>Students go to med school to be able to treat patients. A PhD program is for academics/research.</p>
<p>Should I go into business or medicine? </p>
<p>What I'm basically worried about is would I have to pay a large amount of money for malpractice insurance? I wouldn't want to have to do that. Also I would maybe like being a doctor and examinig people and stuff, but I don't know. </p>
<p>Business would maybe be fun, but would it be boring all day. I would maybe get a lot of money, but I don't know. Please Help Thanks</p>
<p>Also could you tell me what each one would do? Like both summarizing it and telling the day to day activities. Thanks</p>
<p>The rates of malpractice premiums depends on your specialty. It's not high in every specialty, for ex for anethesiologists, the avg. rate of premium is 22k/year.</p>
<p>I would suggest you to shadow some doctors around and see what you think, you can't just think you would like being one without actually seeing how it's like.</p>
<p>Depends what type of career you are looking in business too. Medicine is a business also.</p>