Is a career in medicine really worth it?

Pre-Med & Medical School Careers in Medicine
81

<p>after all is said and done(insurance, tax...) can anyone ie. someone in the field tell me how much money u bring home per year. </p>

<p>to all the pple talking about money being the motovating factor. Its probably not for most. Like when I pull a week of all nighter to study chem I dont think of the money im gonna earn as an MD but how great it would be the wear the white coat and have a job where u help people. </p>

<p>But.. money Is a factor, after 10+ years of study and preparation, ahead of us I think we have the right to ask how much a doctor would make. this is a democracy and everyone has the right to question without pple going " omg all u care about is money therefore u cant be a doctor". of course pple care about money , how are u going to put food on the table, pay bills. sorry for being brash but if one is to enter a field of study especially as hard as medicine, we should want to know the financial side of it. it doesnt make u greedy but smart and well informed.</p>

82

<p>It's enough not to worry about it. It's about as good as an airline pilot, about twice as good as a plumber and (sadly) about four times as good as what a teacher makes.
You want numbers? Okay, roughly: You can go to work today for a large group (like a Cleveland Clinic or a Kaiser) as an Internist and make about $150,000 or as an Orthopedic Surgeon and make about $300,000. That's your gross pay; you have only to subtract your personal taxes. It's certainly a living.</p>

83

<p>y'know, when it's 3am and you've been at the hospital since 5am the previous day and you're trying to console a screaming kid and explain to him why he needs immediate surgery, it's not really about philanthropy OR money anymore. it's about doing a job that involves providing a service, same as working at a fast food drive thru or being a lawyer or a fireman. it just happens to be a more rewarding service job than most others, in the opinions of those who are in the field. so stop being so cynical, golubb_u, and lay off the sarcasm.</p>

84

<p>I said it before, I'll say it again. If all you care about is money, don't become a doctor. Go become an investment banker.</p>

85

<p>i was looking up info on neurosurgery (my prospective career choice) and found this:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.physicianrecruiting.com/content/neurosurgery/neurosurgery-se.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.physicianrecruiting.com/content/neurosurgery/neurosurgery-se.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>just fyi</p>

86

<p>the fact is that if you're already lacking the leadership skills, you will NOT be accepted to HBS. MBA is not about academic prowess. </p>

<p>All surgeons make at least 150k.
Some MBA's dont even make that.<br>
Some surgeons make ALOT more than 150k.
Some MBA's make ALOT more than 150k too.
Some MBA's make more than the richest doctor. </p>

<p>Whether you want to throw the dice is up to you.</p>

87

<p>Elaborating on what sakky posted, don't go into medicine if you're only in it for the money. Sure, you can make a lot, possibly even over $1 mil, but it's a long and tough road to get there. Specialties such as neurosurgery require at least 7 years of residency, meaning that you'll be around 33 before you actually start practicing. Before then, there's a good chance that you could accumulate a load of debt from 4 years of med school (keep in mind that residency doesn't pay very well). In a career such as i-banking, you can start at an associate level right after getting an MBA, which could be in one's mid-20's. By the age of 33, many are at the VP level, making $400k+ the first year, and pay skyrockets from there (sometimes into 8-figure bonuses). Of course, i-banking is also a tough road and many people burn out, but it's not like medicine is an easy career path either. So many ambitious high school/college students seem to want to pursue medicine because of its prestige and guaranteed salary. Sure, you'll make a lot of money once you get there. But it's a long road, and there are other ways to make money.</p>

88

<p>mrsanguine. Where did you get the info that all surgeons make at least 150k? Some do, but most avg less, general surgeons at least. Most specialized surgeons make the 150k+ range</p>

89

<p>"Most specialized surgeons make the 150k+ range"</p>

<p>Take a look at:</p>

<p><a href="http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000026.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000026.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This is the average salary for a general surgeon, not a specialized surgeon. </p>

<p>Specialized surgeons make considerably more. They complete the general surgery training (the site provides salary info for those that leave off at this) and pursue further detailed training.</p>

<p>It's impossible to provide a useful salary for "specialized surgeons", since the field itself is just so broad. Typically, I would expect these guys to be 300k+. </p>

<p>The range, however, is very wide. Some will make 300k, others mb up to 1M, depending on how agressively they pursue opportunities as they arrive. </p>

<hr>

<p>Even if you are entering medicine for the money (though later in life you will regret it), the idea that the MBA is a significantly better opportunity I don't buy. While some MBA's do make alot more than even the highest paid of doctors, many do not. </p>

<p>Going into medicine won't leave you strepped for cash or yearning for more money. If you make 400k, for most usual intents and purposes, your lifestyle is going to be highly similar to the lucky (emphasize lucky) businessman who makes 750k. </p>

<p>Don't enter business saying "I will make more money when I'm CEO". As has been mentioned, alot is dependent on inate characteristics and even more so on luck. Instead, take a breath of reality and look at those that aren't exactly as lucky as to make it to the top of a firm's ladder.</p>

<p>This might be some more useful info, and would probably show you that compared to the MBA's, the MD's dont exactly look like popper's. </p>

<hr>

<p>As another aside, I'm really glad that ppl are intelligently talking about this issue. While it goes without saying that nobody should enter medicine just for the money (not only is it wrong to do that to yourself, but it is also wrong for your patients whose lives are in your hands), many people always escape to some moral highground shunning any prospective doc talking about $. That's foolish. Nobody can argue that $ is not something that needs to be considered.</p>

90

<p>ForeverZero makes some good points.</p>

<p>The fact is that both professions are grueling, highly lucrative careers. If all you want is money, then compared to medicine, i-banking is the better bet both for your own sanity and for the welfare of your patients; it is not the better bet, however, b/c it is significantly better paid. </p>

<p>The high paying positions in both careers will always be around, no matter what. (An interesting aside is that in the link I provided earlier, a considerable number of those jobs had malpractice already covered for before the salary). But these positions will only be open to those who are agressive enough to go after them. There is no sense in comparing the best ibankers to the most average of docs.</p>

<p>If you enter i-banking, you will not have money thrown at you. The same goes for medicine. But if you work hard, stay strong, stay easy going and seize the right opportunities (easier said then done, I know) then the money is there in both professions.</p>

91

<p>dude r u sure its only 225 for surgeons?? I'm sure a cardiovascular surgeon or neurosurgeon or orthopedic surgeon rake in A LOT of money...don't they make like a lot more than say internal medicine??? I understand u mean after malpractice and what not..but still lol...wierd. </p>

<p>btw, do any of you think that the average doctor's salary will raise as years go by? Like I'm sure a doctor wasn't making as much back in the 60's as they could be right now</p>

92

<p>I've actually heard that their salaries are going down...</p>

93

<p>umardarr: That's exactly the point. CV surgeons, neurosurgeons etc are specialized surgeons. </p>

<p>The 225 you're referring to from the link is GENERAL surgery. </p>

<p>CDN is right, the salaries are going down, but money will still be there for those who pursue it.</p>

94

<p>you can be a CEO with an MD but you can't be a doctor with an MBA. lots of insurance company and hospital high-ups are MDs.</p>

95

<p>
[Quote]
If all you want is money, then compared to medicine, i-banking is the better bet both for your own sanity and for the welfare of your patients;

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>Brilliant summary!</p>

96

<p>Salaries for everyone are going down in medicine. Sure a lower level gen surg right out of residency makes 150k, then take away malp insur. and other expenses and taxes and thats not much money. Even at the median with taxes and malp. you are still not making as much as you could in other fields. And yet people still persist onwards asking this question every week. Heres that answer if you go into medicine you will make a good living. You will most likely not be rich, but you will also not be poor if you know how to manage money. Most lawyers will make more then you. Most business people will make more then you. If you are looking for a very comfortable living style with low hours, high pay, medicine probably isnt for you. If medium-high hours are fine for you, a good lifestlye, pretty good pay, and you have true passion for medicine then it is probably a perfect choice for you.</p>

97

<p>"Most lawyers will make more then you. Most business people will make more then you."</p>

<p>This is highly untrue. It takes just a little bit of thought to know that most people with MBA's in America entering the business field do not make significant amounts of money. The MBA is the most commonly acheived professional degree in the US, and most business people do not make 200k. Ask your parents, your neighbors, look online. </p>

<p>The misconception arises when you look at the big guys in business - those who have successfuly made it to the top (with many years of grueling, almost inane paperwork types of jobs behind them: think analyst). It is true that the big time CEO's and upper level investment bankers of important firms and large companies will make lots and lots of money - more than the average doc for sure. bigndude seems to imply that because of this fact, business is a more lucrative career than medicine (if all you're looking at is cash).</p>

<p>However the fallacy in this way of thought is that you are comparing the best of the business world with the average doctors. Not all the MBA's will be CEO's and high-end investment bankers. This is a fact of life. Similarly, not all doctors will be the well-respected neurosurgeons or CV-surgeons. These guys will make considerable amounts of money. If one has the ambition to pursue it, 500k+ is not unrealistic. </p>

<p>bigndude, you cannot compare the i-banker to the pediatrician if all you're looking at is income. A good i-banker has made it to the top of the business profession, and as such you need to compare him/her to those at "the top" of the medical profession. That's a more realistic observation.</p>

98

<p>Mr_sanguine, business is a much more lucrative career than medicine. By your argument, you could consider careers like medical technicians and nurses as part of the medical field. Why only MD's? What about chiropractors and other professions stemming from DO's? They're in the medical profession as well. It's also unfair to compare a low-level manager with a neurosurgeon. Specialty surgeons, who are at the very top of the medical hierarchy, deserve to be compared to the top investment bankers and CEO's, who make multi-millions. No matter which way you look at it, the average person in business will make more money earlier on than the average person in medicine. And when comparing the top salaries of each group, there's no comparison. If you want to make a lot of money quickly, go into business (preferably i-banking).</p>

99

<p>As usual, you make some good points, ForeverZero. But everybody on this thread is considering MD's. You can't simply introduce a new variable and claim it fits. By your logic, what about the people that enter business with no leadership skill and end up as low, or at best, middle-managers? They're in the business profession as well. These guys make the 200k discussed earlier? </p>

<p>The point here is that in medicine, you are guaranteed a certain, high level of income - whatever that might be - no matter what branch you choose. This is no way true in business. As mentioned earlier, the MBA is the most commonly achieved professional degree in the US. And in no way do all the MBA’s make it to the top of the business income ladder (top IBs and CEOs) If you enter surgery or some other specialized field (derm, for ex) the guarantee of income is even higher than that of the non specialized docs. </p>

<p>You are right when you said that the top investment bankers and CEO's make more than even the highest paid of doctors. I mentioned that earlier: "It is true that the big time CEO's and upper level investment bankers of important firms and large companies will make lots and lots of money - more than the average doc for sure"</p>

<p>My argument is when someone said that MOST business people will make more. This is simply untrue. Some business people will make ALOT more money, though those that make it to the top levels of IB and corporate management are very few. </p>

<p>In the end, if all you’re looking at is money, then it comes down to whether or not you want to throw the dice. Take a chance and try and make more than you ever would have had you entered medicine by trying to make it to CEO, or go after a high income guarantee in medicine (though still less than that of the CEO) by pursuing a specialty surgery. And this income guarantee is quite high (think over 500k) for those that pursuing it (not everyone does). And for those docs already making this money, the opportunity cost of choosing medicine instead of business in terms of income is greatly balanced by the fact they are truly helping people in unimaginable ways, and by the fact that there is inherent job security in the field. </p>

<p>You might say that similar to the fact that very few people make it to CEO, very few also make it to specialty surgery. But medicine is different in that those that choose not to be the neurosurgeons or CV-surgeons, it is their choice not do it (family, interests, other passions). In business, it’s often someone else’s.</p>

<p>If you're a gambler and all you want is money, go to i-banking!</p>

100

<p>I-banking it is:)</p>