<p>I did well Freshman year (Dean’s List) but was on the verge of failing out Sophomore year. I didn’t drink or party and nothing else really changed, I just didn’t have the study skills for the more rigorous classes. I figured it out and had a very good last two years. </p>
<p>Your daughter needs to hang in there, utilize her advisor and other resources, get a tutor if needed, go to office hours, etc. She should be able to right the ship.</p>
<p>Sometimes (and I’m not saying that this is what is occurring) a student who is smart and did well in high school often did not have to study that hard to receive the grades they earned. Sometimes what is lacking is study skills. College requires much more self teaching than high school. What you learn in class is not all you must learn. It’s a good idea to read ahead and go to class prepared and to get clarification on concepts you are still struggling with. If you still have questions either from what you self studied or from the class you are better prepared because you will have familiarized yourself twice with the material already and will have a better idea which concepts you need help understanding. You spend much less time in the classroom than in high school but are expected to spend at least double the scheduled hours studying, meaning for a 3 hour class you should plan on at least 6 hours a week studying. A 16 hour schedule becomes a 48 hr/week job. Good luck it is a transition.</p>
<p>Eh, this happens to alot of students their first semester/year. She’s probably still finding the right balance between work and play. She’ll be fine once she finds that equilibrium.</p>
<p>**On another note, Vanderbilt does a real disservice to its students with the obvious grade deflation. No top school besides Vanderbilt encourages that. Why even have a bell curve, when your GPA is all employers and grad schools care about? </p>
<p>Harvard TRULY understands how this game is played. Give most of your students A’s (which they would have gotten had they attended a state school anyways)…then when McKinsey, Goldman, Google, Stanford/Wharton MBA, Yale Law looks at their transcript, they have easier entry. This facilitates higher salaries, which results in greater donations. Until the average GPA at Vandy is a 3.7 like at Harvard, there are going to be problems.</p>
<p>I’ve actually decided to leave Vanderbilt after this year, in part because of this. It’s a great school and all, but grad schools and employers want to see a high GPA. I could work less hard and have a higher GPA at my state school than I can at Vandy, so I don’t see why I would stay here and struggle to scrape by. The supposed weight of the “Vanderbilt” name on my diploma is a lot less than the weight of that GPA. Period. And I understand that it’s my first year and supposedly it’ll get better, but I just can’t sit around and let my GPA suffer in the hopes of that. I’m floundering in General Bio, and I get that it’s a weed-out class or whatever, but I don’t want to go to a school where they seem to WANT you to do poorly.</p>
<p>It’s really not that they want students to do poorly. These courses are graded, more or less, on a standard curve-- probably the exact same standard curve you’d find at your state school. Being a Vanderbilt caliber student, you’d just be more likely to fall much higher on the curve at a state school, but there are kids there struggling as well.</p>
<p>If the goal is grad school, it is certainly important to maximize your GPA and save some money. If the goal is employment, worrying about having an unusually high GPA is absolutely silly. </p>
<p>@Pancaked -Are grad schools not aware of the different grading standards at different universities? You’re kinda scaring me about grad school applications now!</p>
<p>@SusieAnne, sorry you are struggling. My DD is in the same boat. She has always talked about pledging a sorority, but probably will not be able to because her GPA won’t be high enough. She is OK with that as she realizes she won’t have enough time for that. She is thinking of switching her major already.</p>
<p>@Sophie1295 oh, you should hear the talk! Direct quote: “Yeah, if you don’t have a 3.7 or higher, you might as well not apply to any good med schools.” I can’t attest to if it’s the same for other graduate programs, but it’s clear that that’s how it is for med schools, as advisors have echoed similar sentiments.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear that you want to leave Vanderbilt…are you sure your tests won’t get curved? </p>
<p>@SusieAnne
That’s not true.</p>
<p>Look here:
<a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf”>https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf</a></p>
<p>@SusieAnne , Harvard Medical School has an average incoming GPA of 3.79, and that’s perhaps the top medical school in the country. At Stanford, where the average GPA is also around 3.8, the 25th percentile is 3.42 – a quarter of their class came with a GPA under 3.42 .</p>
<p>Both these schools reject 4.0s from state schools left and right. It’s important to consider the kinds of doors a school like Vanderbilt can open for you to supplement your profile.</p>
<p>@Sophie1295 The tests are only part of the reason I’m leaving and… even if they were curved, I don’t think there’s a curve large enough to help me. Well, there is, but none a sane professor would utilize. But again, it’s not just the tests, Vanderbilt is a lot… different from what I imagined it would be. Which is probably more my fault than anything else (I did visit, but some things you just don’t know until you’re there), but still. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like I’m clawing my way out because it’s awful and I can’t see how anyone goes there, I’m sure tons of people are very happy, and I hope my spot is open for a transfer that can be very happy there, it’s just not somewhere that I’ll be happy at for four years.</p>
<p>@Pancaked @2018dad By all means I fully admit that statement could be wrong, that’s just the kind of atmosphere around Vandy in my experience. I should have clarified.</p>
<p>Also, my dreams of med school have already been fully crushed. I’m going to state school and will be studying something else. I meant the weight of the name in regards to employers rather than grad school, but mentioned grad school since that was the topic of discussion already. I’d rather show an employer a 4.0 at my state school than my Vanderbilt GPA.</p>
<p>
The issue of grade deflation at Vandy has come up previously - here’s a thread from 2012: <a href=“Grade deflation - #22 by frazzled1 - Vanderbilt University - College Confidential Forums”>Grade deflation - #22 by frazzled1 - Vanderbilt University - College Confidential Forums;
<p>GPAs are on the rise at Vandy, as they are at many schools. The average all-undergrad GPA in Spring, 2014 was 3.434. Here’s the Greek Life Spring 2014 grade report: <a href=“http://www.vanderbilt.edu/greek_life/wp-content/uploads/Spring-14-grade-report.pdf”>http://www.vanderbilt.edu/greek_life/wp-content/uploads/Spring-14-grade-report.pdf</a> Greek Life grade reports are one of the few ways I’ve found to determine average GPAs at various schools for all students, btw, and not every school makes them available online. </p>
<p>I have no experience with University of Tennessee, but its Greek Life grade report is also online, and I’m comparing it to Vandy’s because many Vandy students probably considered UT when applying to schools. <a href=“http://gogreek.utk.edu/files/ifcgradereports/Spring2014IFCGradeReport.pdf”>http://gogreek.utk.edu/files/ifcgradereports/Spring2014IFCGradeReport.pdf</a> The grade report shows what I would consider to be a truly deflated all-undergrad average GPA of 2.94. </p>
<p>I understand the discouragement of those first few grades coming back with numbers the student has probably never seen before! But GPAs almost always do rise, since students are learning to balance academic performance with independence. There’s a great education to be had at Vanderbilt. It’s not just the Vandy name on the diploma that is important about those 4 years.</p>
<ol>
<li> It takes time to adjust to the academic rigor at Vandy. Many students feel discouraged at this point. You are not alone. The good news is most students adjust their study habits.<br></li>
<li> Yes, STEM students get hit over the head with a 2X4 in the intro classes (and people ask why more students don’t go into STEM majors). Vandy should look into these classes and the grading scale and make significant changes. For the most part, you can take Vandy students & blindfold them, give them a test in Chinese, tie their hands behind their back, and stick a pencil in their mouth and they will still make >90% on the test. To have an average test score of 67% in an intro class with the top 1% test takers in the world is not valid. The upper level classes are not graded with the same curve.</li>
<li> Yes, you will be pushed and challenged at Vandy more than your state flagship. Most Vandy students will set the curve at most state U’s and never miss a party but you will never be pushed from your academic comfort zone.<br></li>
<li> Med schools are not dumb. They know which school inflate GPA’s and which do not. The major med school in my state uses Barons list to adjust UG GPA’s of students from different schools. They will add up to 0.5 to the GPA of students coming from top academic U’s. Yes, it is more difficult to stand out at Vandy than at your state school. On the other hand it is even more difficult to stand out among the thousands of med school apps with high GPA’s from schools with less rigor. </li>
</ol>
<p>"The major med school in my state uses Barons list to adjust UG GPA’s of students from different schools.</p>
<p>@bud123 Is there a way the general public can get access to the Baron’s list you’re talking about?</p>
<p>Thanks!!!</p>
<p>@SusieAnne it sounds like your mind is already made up, but I’ll just say that I had a 2.5 GPA my first semester here and am going to graduate around a 3.8 . Might not make any difference to you but perhaps it will give relief to others reading.</p>
<p>Also, for others reading, Vandy’s freshman retention rate is something crazy like 97% or 98%. While it does sound like SusieAnne is making a reasonable decision here and the best choice for her situation, wanting to transfer away is not a common situation; the retention rate is much lower at state schools.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>Post #35:</p>
<p>Pancaked, that hardly seems possible unless you have a 4.0 in your last 7 semesters. What is your major?</p>
<p>@SusieAnn, I definitely understand your decision. Just make sure the state school you attend can still open doors for you.</p>
<p>@bud123 Perhaps this is the case with med schools. For other graduate programs and employers, GPA and test score is almost all that matters. Writing bs application essays and getting dime-a-dozen recommendations don’t make or break an applicant, but gpa and tests score usually can and do.</p>
<p>Business School: <a href=“http://poetsandquants.com/2013/08/01/inflated-gpas-good-for-mba-applicants/”>http://poetsandquants.com/2013/08/01/inflated-gpas-good-for-mba-applicants/</a> (so MUCH honesty, I wish i had written this article myself)
Law School: <a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/law-admissions-lowdown/2012/11/12/learn-the-5-deciding-factors-in-law-school-admissions”>http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/law-admissions-lowdown/2012/11/12/learn-the-5-deciding-factors-in-law-school-admissions</a> (GPA is #2, still pretty honest because the lsat is a big deal)
Employers: <a href=“Those Low Grades in College May Haunt Your Job Search - The New York Times”>Those Low Grades in College May Haunt Your Job Search - The New York Times; (8 years old, but still true)</p>
<p>Facts are facts. It’s all about the numbers and rankings. The same prestige-wh*<em>i</em>g, numbers-competition that Vanderbilt engages in at the undergrad level (i.e. getting students with great hs GPAs and test scores) is EXACTLY what grad schools have to do to compete in THEIR rankings. So yes, if you’re trying to get acceptance to Harvard Law, it’s still better to have a 3.99 at State U and a 173 LSAT score than a 3.01 at Vanderbilt and a 175 LSAT score.</p>
<p>Employers do the same thing, but they narrow it to schools. So if McKinsey, Goldman, Google, etc. doesn’t recruit at your school, it doesn’t matter what your GPA is. If they do, it matters…along with other factors, but it’s still their easiest way to weed people.</p>
<p>We all know it’s a game. Vanderbilt needs to play ball. All the other top schools do. That’s how they stay on top.</p>
<p>@VandyDone while it might not open doors in other states, I’m not asking it to. I plan to stay in my home state until I get some experience under my belt, and then my resume will speak for itself, and employers OOS won’t care what school I went to.</p>
<p>@Pancaked I’d like to echo your statement and repeat one of mine for any other freshmen or prospective Vandy students: the GPA isn’t the only reason I’m leaving BY FAR. It’s simply the topic of this thread. If the GPA were the only issue, is likely stay and try to stick it out. I wouldn’t ever advise someone whose only qualm with the school is the GPA issue to consider transferring.</p>