<p>The Jewish culture is the Jewish religion. There was never a Jewish culture separate from the Jewish religion and anyone who identifies themselves as only a cultural Jew - somehow I highly doubt that that culture plays any part in their life.</p>
<p>There's still the question of ethnic group. For example, if a person who is Dutch and a person who is Chinese have a baby, most people will say that the baby is half Dutch/half Chinese.</p>
<p>Now, if a Jewish man and a Ukranian woman has a baby, what would that baby be called? 100% Ukranian and 0% Jewish? Secular Jews would say that the baby is half Jewish/half Ukranian, because they believe that "Jew" denotes is an ethnic group, and calling the baby 100% Ukranian wouldn't make sense from an ethnic perspective.</p>
<p>I guess the thing is this. The Jewish ethnicity, culture, and religion were all one in the same for thousands of years. However, in modern times, when some of these Jews began to leave the religion, they still considered themselves to be Jewish as an ethnic group. Just looking purely from an ethnic group perspective, that person isn't French, or Danish, or Finnish, if generations of his family lived in Jewish communities. That person considers themselves to be Jewish, using the term to simply denote just another ethnic group.</p>
<p>Certainly, from talks with my dad, this was the case in Eastern Europe when he was growing up there. He never followed Judiasm, nor did his parents. And although they would all be considered Jews by the religious definition, he never thought of it as that way, he thought of it as a descendent of an ethnic group, like many of the other various ethnic groups living in Russia. And of course, the government thought like this also, and that's why on official records, under the "Ethnicity" column, it says Jewish.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Now, if a person who is Jewish and a person who is Ukranian has a baby, what would that baby be called? Secular Jews would say that the baby is half Jewish/half Ukranian, because they believe that "Jew" is an ethnic group.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That Jew came from somewhere.</p>
<p>Look, how can jew be an ethnic group, if there are jews of every background and nationalities? White jews, black jews, mexican jews, asian jews...</p>
<p>Judaism is a religion like any other. The only difference is that Judaism does not promote conversion, and, as proscribed by jewish law, rabbis actively attempt to dissuade prospective converts from converting. Thus, jews are somewhat homogenous, but usually in their own community, but different communities are different ethnicities.</p>
<p>Iranian Jews look nothing like german jews, who look nothing like ethiopian jews.</p>
<p>Jew, based on its original source, could be considered an ethnicity. Jew refers to the israelites of the tribe of Judah, or yehudah. The word for jew in hebrew is yehudi.</p>
<p>The old saying that "A jew is someone who says he is" comes to mind. Two other similar cases also come to mind. </p>
<p>Blacks who are moving to the US from Central and South America do not want to be called African Americans since they are not from Africa. </p>
<p>There is a current debate going on among Hispanics/Latinos about the two terms. Some Latinos do not want to be Hispanic (and some get quite upset over it) because they feel that their heritage is in Latin America and not Spain. </p>
<p>There seems to be some feeling on this thread that a person who has two Jewish parents, knows about all the Jewish holidays, grew up eating Jewish food, has a name like Steinberg, and frankly looks Jewish; would no longer be Jewish if they found Jesus or became an atheist. From an ethnicity viewpoint, it is as if you are saying that an African American is no longer black if he changes his mind about rap music and converts to Barry Manilow. (Please, noboby get insulted by this and the underlying racial stereotype concerning music preferences that I am exploiting for humorous effect.)</p>
<p>I guess I can see both sides, but it might be best to at least let people label themselves if they have to be labeled. At any rate, I refer you to the dictionary definition of the word "ethnic".</p>
<p>Look, how can jew be an ethnic group, if there are jews of every background and nationalities? White jews, black jews, mexican jews, asian jews...</p>
<p>I think it makes sense if you look at the term as having a dual meaning. Originally, Judiasm existed only within the Jewish ethnic group, but spread to others after that. So there were Black Jews, Asian Jews, and the original Jew Jews. By that token, you can say that someone who is a Jew ethnically isn't necessarily a Jew religiously, and someone who is a Jew religiously isn't necessarily a Jew ethnically.</p>
<p>I'm sure there's a lot more to this issue than that, but like I said, I don't really know much about the issue so I think this is enough I'll write about it :p</p>
<p>
[quote]
the original Jew Jews
[/quote]
excuse me?</p>
<p>
[quote]
someone who is a Jew religiously isn't necessarily a Jew ethnically.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>actually, they are. </p>
<p>
[quote]
a person who has two Jewish parents, knows about all the Jewish holidays, grew up eating Jewish food, has a name like Steinberg, and frankly looks Jewish; would no longer be Jewish if they found Jesus or became an atheist.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is unbelievable. They would no longer be Jewish. Judaism is a religion. You really can't be all religions at once now can you?</p>
<p>
[quote]
From an ethnicity viewpoint, it is as if you are saying that an African American is no longer black if he changes his mind about rap music and converts to Barry Manilow.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Being black is not a religion, it is a race. You simply cannot compare the two. </p>
<p>I have to say I am extremely dissapointed with the extent to which people who know very little about Judaism have hypothesized about what they 'kinda think they once heard'. Please I welcome any intelligent discussion, but don't just spew when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.</p>
<p>excuse me?, actually, they are.</p>
<p>I think it's a technicality in the way I am using the term. For example, if some Chinese person coverts to Judiasm somewhere along the line, and continues to have babies with other Chinese Jews, what is the ethnicity of the children? Aren't they still technically Chinese in a way, in addition to being Jews?</p>
<p>Anyway, I have class early tomorrow, so that's enough for me for today :) Maybe if I can get my dad on the computer, he could write about this more eloquently, since my info is all second hand.</p>
<p>I'm going to say this one more time.<br>
Judaism is a religion.<br>
Judaism is a religion
Judaism is a religion</p>
<p>Chinese is an ethnicity
Black is a race
Ukranian is a nationality
NONE OF THESE ARE RELIGIONS!</p>
<p>There are only 3 races:</p>
<p>caucasian
asiatic
black (forgot the proper term for this)</p>
<p>everything else is somewhere in between</p>
<p>Agreed Cool2Bars.</p>
<p>Yes you can "look" jewish, but you can also look christian, by being blonde hair blue eyed, or look buddhist because youre tibetan or pagan because you are zulu or whatever. It is just that judaism has people who look identifiably jewish, but that is only because they lived in very homogenous, almost incestual villages in Europe, and thus look somewhat alike. </p>
<p>"who is a Jew ethnically isn't necessarily a Jew religiously, and someone who is a Jew religiously isn't necessarily a Jew ethnically."</p>
<p>If you are a jew religiously, you are a jew period. If your mother was not jewish you are not a jew no matter what anyone else tells you.</p>
<p>I think this whole notion of jew as ethnicity stems from
A) Antisemitic tracts, though not that I am offended by the posts here.
B) The desire of secular jews to cling on to their heritage without actually living as a religious jew.</p>
<p>Rc251, they are simply chinese jews, meaning that they practice judaism and are chinese.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>If your mother was not jewish you are not a jew no matter what anyone else tells you.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Unless, of course you convert, in which case you are a Jew just as much as a person whose family came from 10 generations of shetel life. (putting aside, of course, purely internal and internecine considerations of whether you chose to undergo Orthodox, Conservative or Reform Conversion)</p>
<p>Finally asher, someone who actually knows what they are talking about, although
[quote]
that is only because they lived in very homogenous, almost incestual villages in Europe
[/quote]
that is a little offensive. Hey, I'll get over it.</p>
<p>And yes, mhc48, a convert is as much a Jew as anybody else. Although I think you meant shtetel. Wow "internecine". Big word. I had to look it up.</p>
<p>The definition of ethnic from the dictionary is: "of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background". Hitler and the Nazis did not have the Holocaust because they were picking on people who believed in God. I think some people are trying to reserve the word Jewish for the purely religious meaning. The same thing is happening with Fundamentalist Christians and the word christian. If a person was raised in a christian culture and has that "cultural origin or background", then they are ethnically christian. They don't have to testify and accept Jesus into their hearts, although that is another meaning of Christian.</p>
<p>Sorry, cool. Did I leave out the "t" in shtetel? It was inadvertant... I think. My grandfather used to drink his tea from a glass. A Yahrtzeit glass with a lump of sugar in his mouth. I think the sugar, the glass and the t were lost, crossing some border on the way over to America. Or maybe I lost them crossing some other sort of border into the suburbs.</p>
<p>It seems that people are trying to use the word jewish to indicate some devout subgroup of Jews. The following definitions are from Merriam-Webster. If you won't accept the dictionary definitions, at least allow others to do so. After that caveat, people are free to believe whatever makes them happy.</p>
<p>The definition of Jew is:
1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : Israelite
2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C. to the 1st century A.D.
3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people
4 : one whose religion is Judaism </p>
<p>The definition of jewish is: "of, relating to, or characteristic of the Jews"</p>
<p>The definition of Judaism is:
1 : a religion developed among the ancient Hebrews and characterized by belief in one transcendent God who has revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions
2 : conformity to Jewish rites, ceremonies, and practices
3 : the cultural, social, and religious beliefs and practices of the Jews
4 : the whole body of Jews : the Jewish people</p>
<p>I'm sorry but I don't live my life according to what the dictionary tells me I am. If everyone did many people wouldn't really be Christians</p>
<p>Christian noun
1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
1.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.</p>
<p>Okay, christian is not an ethnic group and you do have to believe in God and Jesus. I'm not surprised by that since there isn't that much common, non-religious background between christian groups. The main cultural commonality is Christmas.</p>
<p>Nobody is suggesting that anyone live their lives according to the dictionary, just speak using it.</p>
<p>Im from northern california and i have never met a real jew in my life. Shalom!</p>
<p>what does 'real jew' mean?</p>