This is the only thing I am saying. If hooked admittees determine the range of admitted students, then it is no great credit to the legacy kids that they are in the range. Are they in the range of unhooked kids? Then we can legitimately claim that they are very strong. From my limited experience, this is not the case significantly more often than the few times that the legacy kids are genuinely strong.
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Well, at least their SAT scores are stronger, generally.
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Since when did the SAT score become a measure of performance for a top school anyway? 
It is a mere checkbox. Look at the 100s of kids with a high 1500s on just this forum that got rejected from these schools ā¦
Doesnāt the kid need a large set of other accomplishments?
Sorry. I said I was going to disengageā¦
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Iād venture that having high income parents with high levels of educational attainment would ON AVERAGE yield better results. Donāt know the % of those attending public v. private school but that can also impact %'s. Again, the idea that legacies are all under qualified just isnāt true. Nor is the idea that every legacy is deserving.
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HYP grad here. Among our friends, almost none of our children are attending our alma mater. Good schools to be sure, but not their ālegacyā school. In D20ās case, Iād say the rejection might be because she applied RD, but we will never know. Sheās much better off at her current school. S24 probably wonāt even apply.
Among Dās friends, the legacies who attend the ivies tend to fall within three groups: (1) legacy plus super parent involvement and donations ($$$$, plus on various boards/fundraisers), (2) legacy plus recruited athlete (crew, hockey, sailing, etc), and (3) legacy, just super smart. We definitely know more legacies in groups 1&2 than we know in group 3.
I donāt know if legacies performed any differently this year compared to prior years, but the sense among my daughterās friends is that ājust legacyā isnāt as helpful as it used to be.
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I agree in part. My daughterās school is ranked in the top 10% of publics in PA. They have awesome teachers, offer almost every AP course available, and have glorious sports facilities. They also have 1 guidance counselor for every 500 students, and those guidance counselors rotate each year so that letters of rec are based on two cursory meetings and an uploaded resume. Counseling is not a top priority, even at many well-resourced publics. The guide they handed out this year still suggests applying to 4-6 colleges.
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I didnāt mean to imply all well resourced publics offer the level of college counseling we were talking about. A 1 to 500 GC to student ratio is worse than the average, according to NACAC. Perhaps the school could be persuaded to redirect resources to adding a GC or two?
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Iā¦ I mean, Iām laughing, sadly, to myself. But over here in a suburb of Seattle, large public school district, persuading them to redirect resources isā¦ not a thing. I mean, they spent the entire pandemic attempting to hire a replacement college counselor, and this year, well, someone got stuck with the job but they arenāt a specialist.
The playing field is nowhere near level.
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SO relate to this feeling.
So true. Same experience here.
Same here !
Agree, not level. In addition, DD22 was adamant about not getting any outside help. Our one counselor (spread thin between guidance for 11/12, college, questbridge) has to manage a wide socio-economic spectrum. We were told not to approach until questbridge was done.
The message from the school was always - we get good exmissions, no need for outside help because majority cannot afford. Most parents who could afford help got it anyway. Did that help? Maybe. Some outside non paternal guidance as to what to do post March 2020 might have been nice.
From what I have seen, no better outcomes. But I am grateful my CC (not private but private school) was there to hold MY hand and therefore allowing me to help my kid better.
I also think most ppl probably hire outside help too late. I have a friend who realized the $$ was the same weather she paid for it 9th grade or 12th grade, so they had their resource along the way.
CC was very valuable Jr year as we had to make decisions about dropping a class, what electives to take, how one set of Sr classes vs another would impact the overall narrative. After that their most important job was to help us find 2-3 slam dunk schools that still made made sense for our student.
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Outside help was crucial for us at a mid-size public (1600+ students). School counselors were overwhelmed and relied too heavily on Naviance that is not 100% reliable. A few good ones play favorites and ours basically ignored our D22. The private counselorās firm had a database that helped her find her fit and develop a very balanced list of 9 schools (3 of each: reach, target, safety). Also helped with key decisions about senior year courses and choosing an essay topic that wasnāt earth shattering but reflected who she is as a person. She is going to NUin but would have happily attended some of the other schools that accepted her. One rejection and one WL out of nine, while peers using school counselors had many more WLs and rejections.
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Thank you all for this fascinating discussion. I have a D23 and D24 so Iām soaking up as much info as I can right now. Just to add a point of anecdata - this year at our small, relatively unknown but super competitive Texas public HS we are seeing a record number of Ivy/ T20 acceptances and itās definitely NOT because of our counselors or national reputation. Is it the collegesā interest in geographic diversity? Families who went gung ho on applications after seeing other kids struggle with college decisions the past few years? Exceptional and ambitious kids? All of the above? Who knowsā¦
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In nyc, there is a small but perceptible shift in public schoolsā favor this year.
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Love it!
@skieurope: are you listening? 
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How much money do u guys spent on these outside help?
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Jared Kushner. Not a Harvard legacy, but dad donated millions and he got in. Heās quite underwhelming.
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The average legacy is not donating a building.
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