That’s the old argument, that ‘elite’ colleges pick from an equally talented pool to build a class. It’s not true.
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The sour grapes on this thread is leaving such a bad taste in my mouth!
Rest assured that “cream rises to the top”. If your child is “all that” they will do just fine.
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Was there a typo? your 2nd and 3rd statements seem to contradict each other.
- you say that applying as an American is “less appealing”
and 2) better odds being in the US pool
An American abroad (I believe) is in a stronger position than an international (no US green card or US citizenship).
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Nobody is saying that those things constitute talent.
But, American private schools (and to a lesser extent public) are not looking for “talent.” They want to build a diverse class without gender imbalance and with visual and invisible diversity.
It’s a different paradigm than the European/Asian system.
Also, there are not just many on these boards who have lived abroad, had their (US or not) children educated abroad, there are even posters (me!) who were educated abroad in said international schools.
Hmmm similarly then…
The issue is basketball fans believe a false heuristic, that the NBA is filled with the best and tallest athletes who play basketball. This is not the case.
Wow now I feel better having not been drafted into the NBA.
Reality is that many kids who are rejected from the most elite schools are both qualified and would thrive at those institutions. I can understand how that would lead to disappointment and a need for “an answer”.
The suggestion however that those who get accepted and attend aren’t academically qualified is as absurd as my NBA analogy. Schools with sub 5% acceptance rates have the luxury of matriculating both diverse and gifted kids. The suggestion that these two groups are some how mutually exclusive is at best naive and self serving or at worst the embodiment of bias.
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How would you know that? I’d bet you would never know and can’t begin to fathom what anyone on a CC thread’s life experience/education has been. Such a sill and unfounded claim.
Can only speak to what happened at our public HS, considered very rigorous by most colleges.
Moderate and high stats kids did VERY well if they had an interesting EC/hook. High stat kids didn’t do much better than moderate stat kids.
Feels like our city public HS wasn’t “punished” to the same extent as some tristate public schools in affluent burbs or privates.
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I’ve read a lot of posts. Many (not the majority) have lived abroad, and had children educated abroad. The community seems worldly to me, compared to a random selection of Americans. Do you disagree?
City school, likely by its very nature has more socio-economic and racial diversity so many the check boxes were also met. Also, I’d imagine that since you are in NYC, that you have a larger number of first gens. Maybe/Maybe not. But that’s a big category these days.
Yeah, comparing apples to apples only. It seems that the school didn’t have as many anecdotes of non-FGLI/non-URM kids not getting into Wisconsin or Maryland.
I have no idea what you are talking about here.
I think your grammar is incorrect if you are saying that there are many who are educated abroad/have kids who are educated abroad. Perhaps, reread what you wrote above. Not just many?? is what you said. Perhaps, you meant the opposite?
IMO, I have no idea how many people have lived abroad or been educated abroad. Unless they say so, I wouldn’t know. What I would say is that CC skews pretty high income and pro-education and many are highly educated first gen parents. So I would say as a guesstimate there are many who were LIKELY educated abroad or who have worked abroad.
Regarding your HS< I don’t think you can say this happened at a single high school so that’s what’s happening across the board. I don’t think I can say this is what is happening in our state ( public, private and mostly high SES areas) across the board either. There aren’t enough data sets. As for comparing apples to apples, do you mean in your singular high school? That seems very narrow.
I think you misread - or I was confusing in the statement. “not just many” probably should have been “In addition to the many” - trying to say that these boards read more cosmopolitan.
“Not just many” <> “Not many”
So - I think we agree on that point.
Never going to get the data set, but this year seems to have gone pretty well at our high school. Only pleasant surprises.
Darn those double negatives, I just read it as written. Yes, seems to be quite a wide representation of people on CC.
Great you have had a good year at your high school. Excellent news.
If the “talent” of the applicant pools were the same without including diversity as a factor, diversity would not be included as a factor. That’s pretty basic logic. Not even the litigants in the cases appealed to the Supreme Court made the arguments that you make. Instead, they contended that institutions have missions that extend beyond academics, that they aim to redress past wrongs, and/or that their goals include making graduating classes reflect society as a whole (or a state population, as was made in the case of the Texas public law school).
But no one has argued that there is zero impact on the academic qualifications of the admitted classes, no one has contended that there were zero changes in future performance, and no one has maintained that everyone applying above a certain threshold is somehow equal. Those are only arguments you hear from people with political agendas; they don’t reflect what any attorney representing colleges has stated as a rationale. Finally, no one claimed that diversity and talent are somehow mutually exclusive; that’s a rather obvious straw man.
Diversity initiatives are about trade-offs, and I support those trade-offs, on the whole. But let’s not pretend as if there aren’t trade-offs. To do so, unironically, is the perfect illustration of bias and self-serving argumentation.
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I agree, the NBA analogy is absurd.
The most elite universities are most concerned with influence, not necessarily talent.
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Completely agree. And one shouldn’t be offended if somehow one’s diversity as a candidate was a hook.
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I agree some trade offs take place but I don’t agree with the suggestion or assertion that such trade offs result in a sub standard or unqualified student body and I certainly believe the entirety of the educational experience is enhanced by trying to balance institutional goals. I also don’t think the entirety or worthiness of a student is as quantifiable or definitive as some might like to suggest through the use of terms like taken.
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Yes gross generalizations are absurd.
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What a gross generalization you are making. 
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Your definition of “moderate stat” and “high stat” students?