<p>Hooray for Dave Berry!</p>
<p>I really do love that movieā¦ never gets old ā although I have.</p>
<p>To the thread: I find it interesting that when posters are negative about Dartmouth or point out a concern or two, other posters of the Dartmouth faithful say their issues reside in some sort of bitterness and/or they should take their opinions elsewhere since they must be a completely jealous traitor. (Okā¦ admittedly an extreme).</p>
<p>I honestly thought this thread might evolve into a discussion about which schools are intellectual and where Dartmouth might fit in the scale and mix. Iāve always been of the impression Dartmouth was where there are a lot of intellectual types but they donāt start the conversation with, āletās have an intellectual discussion.ā The most interesting and intellectual conversations generally evolve in a very organic way if their based on more than āI know more than youā results <ā this is not my impression of Dartmouth students.</p>
<p>No school can be all things and I donāt know why if people suggest a downside or two of the college culture (i.e., jocks and golden ticket legacies) they are thrown to the proverbial wolves. I just donāt think thatās really being true to the spirit of this website IMO.</p>
<p>Two types of intellectuals:</p>
<p>1) Analytical, intense intellectuals. Less big picture interest in the world, but have very acute academic intellectual interests. Tends to not like parties and identifies themselves by how much they love academics. Might wear dark rimmed glasses. Like schools like Swarthmore, Chicago, Columbia, (and a few others fit the bill.)</p>
<p>2) Exploratory intellectuals. Like to travel the world, not afraid to take risks, do very well academically but like to let loose on the weekends. Are very comfortable in their brilliance and do extraordinarily well at what they focus on. More social. Donāt see being fun and smart as being mutually exclusive. Like schools like Dartmouth, Brown, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Northwestern.</p>
<p>Modadunn, do not confuse aerialās prepubescent fits of name-calling (which has thankfully been dealt with) with āsuggesting a downside or two of the college.ā Iād be happy to talk about Dartmouthās culture, here or by PM, but not with ā ā ā ā ā ā around. I will āthrowā ā ā ā ā ā ā to the āproverbial wolvesā (I think you mean the very efficient admin team, whom Iāve notified of aerialās antics) every time, thank you very much.</p>
<p>I can see how the dominance of student athletes (I donāt like the term ājocksā) and trust-fund legacies can lead to some resentment within the student body. The Greek system certainly doesnāt help, since many (not all) houses are overwhelmingly upper- and upper-middle-class, suburban, heterosexual, and white. Still, Dartmouth does a good job of creating opportunities for students of diverse backgrounds to interact. These opportunities, as I mentioned in the other thread, include Orientation activities, classes, work, student organizations, and off-campus programs. In my experience, āevenā the so-called jocks and legacies are bright people (as in insightful, not necessarily just academic) in their own right, whose company I enjoy as much as that of those who are more like me. Among close friends, the class divide just isnāt as important. The perceived anti-intellectual environment may rise from oneās own discomfort with oneās classmates.</p>
<p>@slipper</p>
<p>You forgot;</p>
<ol>
<li>The intellectual that doesnāt necessarily attend a school based on peopleās perceptions of academiaā¦</li>
</ol>
<p>It just seems to me that what you described are introverts and extroverts.</p>
<p>Except, since weāre talking about grade A schools, those people also happen to be ridiculously intelligent/hardworking.</p>
<p>ex.
Analog of question:
Is fifth group U.S. Special Forces ābadassā?</p>
<p>Analog of your answer:
Two types of badasses:
- Analytical badass: Special Activities Division
2.Exploratory badass: MARSOC</p>
<p>The answer hasnāt really presented a meaningful difference between the degree of badass-ness of either group, instead itās presenting one dichotomy (here itās branch serviceā¦1. CIA 2. Defense Dept.) masqueraded as another ( how much skull they bash)</p>
<p>I would argue that unless schools admissions committee had a definite way to quantify āintellectual abilityā and deliberately accepted a large number of a certain grade of student, there wouldnāt be any way to say</p>
<p>Okay, student attends school X, thus, he is type of student x</p>
<p>Student attends school Y, thus, he is type of student y.</p>
<p>You canāt extrapolate from nothing. College rankings/debates over academic merit are mostly loads of ego trips and crap.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I donāt think it was a documentary. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>It also reminded me strongly of the MIT frat where I spent a lot of time in the mid-70sā¦ :D</p>
<p>My kid is an introvert and highly intellectual (as opposed to smart). Much to the surprise of many, he chose to go to D over one of the schools cited as oh-so-intellectual up-thread. Partially because he thought that if he went there he might become one of those people who spends all of their time in their room.</p>
<p>@DaveBerry
No problem. Itās just Iām used to seeing the CC Senior advisors come in and be the āadultā who says something like: Donāt try and stereotype. And you come in and perpetuate the stereotypes! I donāt mind though.</p>
<p>@Consolation
I wouldnāt be surprised that there were similarities between an MIT frat and Animal House. The MIT students that I know seem to take life to the extreme. In that way, I think they are fairly similar to Dartmouth for being really smart students who have a non-academic outlet.</p>
<p>i guess Dartmouth is a 2 hour drive away from MIT ?</p>
<p>But if youāre the kind of person who is seriously thinking about a place like UChicago or Swarthmore, itās a good sign that Dartmouth may not be a good place for you. People here are smart, but the culture isnāt conducive to meeting new people by launching into a discussion of the merits of minarchism, the rationale behind the 1798 Sedition Act, or the arguments for legalizing partial birth abortion. As Iāve said before, thatās a plus to some, a neutral to some, and a minus to yet others. Iām just fine with this, as are most of the other people I know who like thinking about these things."</p>
<p>Okay, this is such a misconception. Swarthmore is intellectual, but being intellectual doesnāt revolve around debating the rationale behind the Sedition Act. People at Swarthmore generally donāt talk about these things at dinner.</p>
<p>I think āintellectualism,ā as it seems to be defined on this thread and associated with my school, is very overstated. I group myself in a category of people who a) likes academics, b) enjoys talking about academics, and c) enjoys talking about academics in non-academic contexts. I also enjoy things that have little to no relation to school. It sounds like at least as far as this thread is concerned, Iām not so different from some Dartmouth students. </p>
<p>Iāve met a lot of Chicago students who like to talk about academics, though not everybody talks about them all the time. In fact, most of the time, most students are not talking about academics. One thing that surprised me about Chicago was how non-āintellectualā it was compared to what I was expecting. Iām not sure if thatās a good thing or a bad thing for me. Itās gone both ways.</p>
<p>I would even say that the typical weekend at Chicago and the typical weekend at Dartmouth and the typical classroom at Chicago and the typical classroom at Dartmouth would look the same to the person who is searching for specific things. As in, the student who wants to party hard will find that at Chicago and the student who wants to talk about the categorical imperative will find that at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Like dchow, I think the assertion that somehow my school or ones like it are filled with hyperserious students who donāt talk about things besides academics is like saying that Dartmouth is filled with white male jocks who destroy their livers and brain cells. In other words, neither is true, and both images are based on an extremely inflated image mostly perpetuated by people who donāt go there.</p>
<p>(I should mention that I have a handful of Dartmouth friends with whom I compare notes on our college experiences, so I feel somewhat justified in writing this).</p>
<p>It seems to me that āIntellectual,ā in these discussions, is too often an analogue of āgeekish social moron.ā</p>
<p>āWill you have to continue to endure repeatedly having sand kicked in your face?
-Certainly not! ā¦you are no longer in high school; this will, happily, end.</p>
<p>āWill you be loved and socially elevated for affecting a deeply worried intelligence?
-Sadly, probably not.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>all the kids i know from dartmouth talk about 80ās television, food, and talladega nights: the ballad of ricky bobby</p>
<p>You know the wrong kids.</p>
<p>the profs at dartmouth are great. the administration is great. however, the student bodyā¦not so much. the culture is extremely male dominated and heavy HEAVY into drinking. definitely a jock culture and women take a back seatā¦in every way possible. are kids there smart? sure. is that prized in the culture? definitely not.</p>
<p>Not sure how long your DS has been at Dartmouth ddad. As someone who has hired kids at the top of Dartmouthās classes for 25 years, Iāve seen that being smart there is very much prized.</p>
<p>Kids may not wear their intellect on their sleeve as they do at some colleges, but these are ambitious kids with their eye on the ball. They are fierce competitors for top jobs and top grad schools, and getting these are a prize that requires top grades. </p>
<p>So while they may party hardy, donāt take that as meaning their education and being competitive and successful are not their priority in most cases.</p>
<p>One of the things that I donāt like about many top Colleges is drinking. James Wright is one of the college presidents who signed some kind of petition to lower the drinking age to 18. I think that sent the wrong signal. I definitely advise kids not to drink in college, but I donāt know how that is going to affect their social life.</p>
<p>ddad, I agree with you that intellectualism isnāt highly valued at Dartmouth, at least not more than sports and fraternities. However, there are some students who prize intellectualism a lot and once youāre in that group, itās easy to block out the anti-intellectual noise and find what you want within that group. </p>
<p>hmom5, I prefer to think that being intellectual is not the same as being ambitious career-wise. Sure, a lot of Dartmouth students get highly-paid jobs and go on to professional graduate schools, but how many of them end up pursuing PhDs or become book-writers or researchers or educators? Very few. Iāve been looking at other universitiesā websites, at their faculty lists, and very, very few professors went to Dartmouth for their undergraduate degree. Probably one Dartmouth graduate for every 20 Harvard graduates. Iām guilty for using āintellectualismā in the extreme ivory tower/nerdy/arcane knowledge sense, but you get my point.</p>
<p>Dartmouth does produce its fair share of soulless i-bankers, based on my own empirical data.</p>
<p>Xanatos, thatās another one of my disappointments with the school. I donāt understand how and why the students here see Dartmouthās high placement rate in I-banks as a good thing. I mean, itās great that youāre likely to get a job on WS, but itās a bad sign that so many students here are flooding WS.</p>
<p>hmom5, (and Consolation) I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The question, I think, was about the culture at Dartmouth, not about how smart the students are. Obviously Dartmouth kids are smart. Their SAT scores and class rank support that. They do great things, both at Dartmouth and beyond. I would hope so; itās an Ivy League school. The faculty is superb and extremely supportive of the students. My point is that the overwhelming STUDENT climate, for some reason, does not encourage or value an intellectual atmosphere. Perhaps this is todayās norm at all the top schools. Maybe we should ask a Cultural Anthropologist.</p>
<p>If there were some way the admissions people could āscreenā for students, that might help. Efforts to minimize athletics and fraternities may be an attempt at this. But maybe the kids who elect to go there LIKE that culture, and for them, itās just right. Nothing wrong with that, but it is NOT an intellectual culture. My child, for example, refused to apply to Harvard or Yale because people there are āstuck up and elitist.ā Are they? Is that a bad thing? Who knows. But thatās the vibe.</p>
<p>PS: I think James Wright is an excellent president and will be missed. Heās done great things for the school during his tenure. I wish lowering the drinking age was some kind of magic bullet. If only the answer were that easy.</p>