<p>I'm sort of with you. Lots of amazing people at Dartmouth who love the LACy culture, study abroad, intimate atmosphere, etc. But lots of future MBAs.</p>
<p>All I know is that everyone expected my S to pick the U of C because of his intellectual bent, and he chose D. </p>
<p>I'm hoping he made the right decision.</p>
<p>I'm assuming he chose Dartmouth because it's an Ivy League school and it's a higher "brand". I have a friend whose son went to Princeton. He was liberal, a religion major, a really good kid. He was miserable there. When I asked why he didn't transfer he said, "Are you kidding? It's Princeton!" So intellectual climate may not be the most important aspect for people. College ranking (and the Ivy League specifically) is the biggest branding hoax in the history of marketing. But obviously, I got played along with y'all as here I am posting on College Confidential!!!</p>
<p>There are certainly schools that are cloyingly (for lack of a better word, don't mean it to be negative) intellectual and kids that are attracted to them. They are the unusual kids today, often the ones called geeks in high school. I have one of those and he very much sought out that atmosphere and those peers. But even those schools, like Chicago, are losing that feel as the acceptance rates go down at top colleges and a broader range of kids apply to them.</p>
<p>A friend left Princeton recently where he had been a prof for twenty odd years. He is a true intellectual and was horrified by the growing pre professional culture. His theory is that as ivies broadened the student base to include many more students from low and middle income backgrounds, the students no longer had the privilege to pursue careers of the mind. The ivy degree was seen as a ticket to high paying jobs for kids who couldn't count on trust funds.</p>
<p>I also think it's starting to be like the Japanese school system here in the US. You work like a dog to get into college and once you make it to an elite school the party begins. These kids need to blow off steam.</p>
<p>DS says that it seems as though Dartmouth got the popular kids from every high school in America. Most everyone is outgoing and has great social skills. It does make sense that with it's reputation, that's the kind of kids it would attract. Penn is similar in this regard. They are the social ivies. The party ivies. </p>
<p>Yet from what I'm told, the classroom experience can be very intellectual. In a first year seminar last term DS was amazed at the depth of his classmates who he until then had just know socially.</p>
<p>So I think a cultural anthropologist would probably see a point in time when smart kids were money driven. With Wall Street, CEO and technology stars' compensation heralded on the front pages of papers it shouldn't surprise us. It's also a time when kids have had to worker harder than at any other time to get into these schools. They've been over-programmed since birth with few opportunities to let off steam. And a time when cafe intellectuals smoking French cigarettes are not in vogue.</p>
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<p>Although drinking is not a good thing IMO, but it may not reflect anything about intellectual. The most famous Chinese poet in its 5000 years of history, Li Bai, was a heavy drinker. Legend said that he had to drink a lot each time before writing a poem.</p>
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I'm assuming he chose Dartmouth because it's an Ivy League school and it's a higher "brand".
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<p>Actually, he said that he chose D because at the U of C the students he met were socially awkward and the institutional vibe was cold. He had the feeling that if he went there he might become one of those people who spends all of their time in their room. The classes he went to didn't thrill him and the parties were lame. Before the accepted students event, he had been strongly leaning in that direction.</p>
<p>When he went to Dimensions, he said that it was clear that the institution actually CARED whether they came, and the students seemed to also. The concerts put on by student orgs at the Hop were more to his taste-classical music, opera singers, in addition to the rest--than the stuff at the U of C, which included no classical music at all. The classes he attended were a little better. He came home wearing the sweatshirt. </p>
<p>My S is not the social kid that hmom's apparently is. He was neither a "geek" nor the traditional "popular" type. He's an introverted intellectual who also was a 3-season athlete and a musician. </p>
<p>I think that your assumption is both unwarranted and insulting.</p>
<p>Consolation, what's your son's take on the social scene now?</p>
<p>And yes, DS2 is my very social kid, my geek (as he refers to himself) is at MIT.</p>
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A friend left Princeton recently where he had been a prof for twenty odd years. He is a true intellectual and was horrified by the growing pre professional culture. His theory is that as ivies broadened the student base to include many more students from low and middle income backgrounds, the students no longer had the privilege to pursue careers of the mind. The ivy degree was seen as a ticket to high paying jobs for kids who couldn't count on trust funds.
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<p>Ding ding ding! I think this is spot on, and is ONE of the reasons why certain schools are going the "no loan" route so the students remain on a certain degree of equal footing and don't have to hustle for the job to pay off loans, etc. Plus, if students are heavily in debt and in need of a job immediately following graduation they ultimately remain lower paid than their undergraduate school classmates who went on to grad school, and therefore can be seen as the most "underperforming" of the graduating class.</p>
<p>I know a lot of kids that attend Dartmouth. Some popular, some were really introverted and some are "just" athletes who wouldn't be there for a million years without that talent. Granted, it takes all kinds but I always had the impression that Dartmouth held to a more humbled view of intelligence. I got the impression that they didn't need to prove they were smart, they just were. There is a real sense of confidence evident in that attitude. And honestly speaking, this is what had attracted my son to the school initially. I also think it helps that it is neither overwhelmingly liberal or conservative. It's also the smallest of the Ivies, so it has a more communal feel which cuts down on the dogged competitiveness. But if they are all wanting to head to wall street... hmm.. there is definitely a chip of some sort missing from those folks of late and one might wonder where that sense of entitlement comes from.</p>
<p>nope, not at all.</p>
<p>Of course not!! Everyone knows that it takes a complete moron to get into D, just look at their admissions profile! There's more intellectual stimulation at UC Merced!</p>
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Xanatos, that's another one of my disappointments with the school. I don't understand how and why the students here see Dartmouth's high placement rate in I-banks as a good thing. I mean, it's great that you're likely to get a job on WS, but it's a bad sign that so many students here are flooding WS.
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<p>It's funny, you literally couldn't swing a cat without hitting someone going through recruiting last fall (when I was a senior). And that was with the worst financial climate of the past decade or more (surpassed, of course, only by this fall's financial climate).</p>
<p>And to the person that said that an Ivy degree is seen as a ticket to a high paying job for those who can't count on trust funds, my experience was that it was predominantly the rich kids that went for the high-paying corporate and WS jobs.</p>
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