Is Daughter making best decision?

Parents Forum
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<p>I have been reading CC for over a year now as a Lurker. This is my first post.</p>

<p>My DD is a graduating Senior who will be majoring in engineering (mechanical) and would like to learn Mandarin with an Asian Studies Minor. She is trying to make a decision on her college options. I will support her decision as I feel none of her options are bad. Just wondering what others might think since we don't really have anyone else to ask what their thoughts are.</p>

<p>DD was accepted to Case Western Reserve University. She received almost $39,000 in Merit and FA. She would need loans that would result in about $26,000 of debt after 4 years. (Although I may be able to help her keep it down to about $20,000). She would have workstudy to help cover costs. I would cover about $1,600 plus all her books and transportation. Only 4 hours away from home.</p>

<p>Her other options...
William Jewell College (which I know most people probably haven't heard of on CC). It is a small LAC in Liberty, Mo. She would receive $29,500 in Merit and FA. Her loan debt would be $10,500 after 3 years. She would not need to participate in workstudy to help pay for cost. I would cover $300 shortfall, plus books and transportation. About 8 hours from our home.</p>

<p>CWRU would offer DD lots of research opportunity, more well known and respected. Offers both major and minor. Cleveland would offer much more to do. Student body is around 4000 undergrad with small class sizes. We will be visiting this thursday where DD will participate in overnight.</p>

<p>WJC is a 3/2 Engineering program. It does not offer engineering but offers program where after 3 years if you maintain somewhere between 3.3 - 3.5 you are gauranteed to transfer to Columbia, Wash U, Vandy and a few other colleges for engineering degree. After 5 years, you will be issued Bachelor's degree from WJC in Physics or Math. DD would go for physics. You would also receive Bachelor's from the other university you have selected for Bachelor's in Engineering. My income level is low enough that DD could go to Columbia or Vandy 100% need met (at least at my present income). School is small, only about 1100 total student body. Town is small and limited. DD could not study Mandarin. She could do Asian Studies but only Japanese is available. About the only thing she can do for "fun" there would be to swim. She was hoping to stop swimming and find some new experiences in college. There would be plenty of internship and research options with the physics department. We have visited and spoken with profs who have told us this would not be a problem as all of their students that want it have all received offers. </p>

<p>DD was also admitted to some other schools, one of which is University of Miami. But not enough in Merit/FA to make it feasible. Not sure if talking to school would help increase offer. DD is worried that UMiami may be more of a party school. We have not been able to visit, just really don't have the $ and again, can't afford it.</p>

<p>She was waitlisted at Washington and Lee. Which we could have her pursue to see if she could get off WL. They would offer great options for minor, only have physics for major (as their engineering is not ABET accredited, so DD does not want to do). But again, based on our income. DD could go there for 100% need meet, then worry about grad school to do engineering. At least that is what i am thinking..but I could be incorrect.</p>

<p>Please offer (kindly) any thoughts, suggestions or opinions. Thank you in advance. I guess I just am a little concerned about debt vs lesser debt and double bachelor offer. But what is more important? I think if CWRU visit goes well...that will be the right decision...just need some encouragement. I want to be excited for DD but I have worried over this for over a year....need to move on. :)</p>

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<p>$20,000 debt for engineering is very reasonable. The best choice is CWRU and I don’t think it is even close.</p>

<p>I believe that Most students that start out in 3/2 engineering programs never end up getting an engineering degree.</p>

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<p>Most kids who plan on 3/2 programs don’t want to leave their schools when senior year is looming. I’m not saying your daughter wouldn’t , but it doesn’t always work out as intended.</p>

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<p>I agree with Haystack and Mythmom.</p>

<p>CWRU offers the best choice for her to expand her horizons in Mandarin while studying engineering. The engineering school also offers a paid internship experience (co-op) which could lower her undergraduate debt a little bit. Last, it is the least disruptive of all her options, since committing to a 3-2 program invariably requires having to pack up and move right before her senior year.</p>

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<p>Case. I think it’s a stronger option both for engineering and for Asian Studies.</p>

<p>If she’s mature, she could also consider being an RA junior or senior year to cut costs. (Warning: it’s usually rather competitive so she shouldn’t count on it.)</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone. I appreciate the confirmation on her decision with Case. Hope that she falls in love with it after our visit. After a year of over-thinking things, It just becomes hard to let go of the process and just let her commit.</p>

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<p>On paper, Case looks best. However, I think this is a great opportunity to let your daughter experience both, and make the best choice. What is on paper is not what she experiences. Has she visited Case? Can she stay overnight with a student there and see how it feels to her? Have you called her departments, and asked to speak to any students by phone if you haven’t been able to visit? To me, the most important thing is to show support for your daughter’s decision making abilities by letting her take ownership of the issue. I personally would say “You have done a great job to now making decisions which led to these universities offering you admission. You have awesome intuitive abilities, and clearly are capable.” It is up to you. I think the MOST important factor in her success is her self confidence, which you should be taking every opportunity to build at this time.</p>

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<p>My daughter’s intuition was to go with school X, but I knew it would have been a bad fit for her socially. She liked school X because of what she heard from the administration and the best tour guide when she visited. She forgot to look into what the students were really like because she believed she could make friends any where. As her parent, I knew her better sometimes than her. I pointed out some issues she didn’t consider herself. She ultimately did go to school Y and had very good 4 years.</p>

<p>When it came to job search and choosing a job, she consulted me. She picked one that I wouldn’t necessary have, but it was the best choice for her.</p>

<p>I don’t believe a 17/18 year old is always best at making a college choice because lack life experience, and it is a choice that’s hard to do over. It is easier to change a job than to change a college.</p>

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<p>Will she be able to complete the engineering degree and the Mandarin/Asian studies degrees in 4 years? I think you need to factor that into overall costs. It won’t add a significant amount to her loans but maybe another 10,000 or so (but sill not bad for an engineer).</p>

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<p>BluePoodle,</p>

<p>Welcome to CC and the parents forum</p>

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<p>Columbia does not guarantee to meet 100% demonstrated need for their 3-2 programs.</p>

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<p>If Columbia were to gap your financial aid, could you meet the gap? Would you feel comfortable taking on additional debt?</p>

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<p>I also would not be so quick to poo-poo work study. Some where along the line, she is going to apply for internships and it will help her application to have some sort of work experience. There are different types of work study experiences available on campus. Perhaps she can look on her schools website for work study jobs. She should definitely apply well before she gets to campus so that she has something lined up before getting to school.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to your DD on her admissions!</p>

<p>I agree that Case is a much better option for a student who wants to study engineering. And, I also believe that even though it is more per year after FA, the 3-2 would end up costing more - an extra year, no guarantee of sufficient FA from the second school, etc. </p>

<p>I think that the expected debt-load is manageable, especially if you are able to pay down part of it. What I’ve done with my DS - he is taking full stafford subsidized and unsubsidized loans for undergrad. I’ve paid down on the unsub. ones while he is in school, since those are the ones that accrue interest. That will help keep his debt at a more manageable level. (he is a math/comp sci kid, so I’m not too worried - they say that you should try and keep debt to no more than a year’s salary and his will be at most half of an entry level salary in his field.)</p>

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<p>@blue poodle: I hope your daughter loves Case. It is a great option for her on many fronts. We visited last summer and have only good things to say about it. We’ve only heard negatives about 3-2 engineering programs at various schools. Our junior d is not considering any schools that do not have accredited engineering programs.</p>

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<p>Congratulations on your daughter’s acceptances. She has some serious choices to make. May even have more when the WLs come rolling in.</p>

<p>I think that Case is her best option. It has everything she wants right there. Any time you have to transfer into a program, there is the risk you aren’t going to make it. Also, as Sybbie says, there is the financial aid aspect of such transfers. You’ll be going through all of this uncertainty again in a few years.</p>

<p>The other thing is the GPA. She will have to maintain a certain gpa, from what remember, in order to keep her Case award, but it is not anywhere nearly as onerous as the transfer gpas required by Columbia, Vandy, etc. Engineering is a tough major and it has to have a record number of kids who drop out of the programs as compared to other majors and courses of study. My cousin’s DD is changing her major–she is at U Delaware in an engineering program, and this first year is it for her in this course of study. She was 100% gung ho and was a top student in high school, had great stats and received some merit awards that may be hanging in doubt after her first year’s performance. My cousin is grateful that she chose to go to that school as it remains affordable even if she loses her merit money and the school also has many other options in terms of choice of study. She had considered some programs at places where there was not as much flexibility. Never would her parents have expected that this would have happened, as the young lady was very fixated on the field and has never "failed " at anything academic in her life. College is a whole other world.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to remind you that there are also 5000+ grad students on the CWRU campus. It’s not just a university of 4000 undergrads. We visited there a month ago during their spring break and D and I both really liked pretty much everything about it though it was hard to tell what the real student vibe was like since most weren’t on campus at the time.</p>

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<p>Agree that few actually do the 3/2 programs. Also, internships are important and they may be harder to get if pursuing a 3-2, as the opportunities would be more likley only after the transfer to the engineering school.</p>

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<p>I agree that Case is a good deal, with other choices if Engineering plans change. And $26K in debt after graduation is doable. Hope she finds it a good fit on her visit. Good luck.</p>

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<p>I will chime in on the engineering/Asian language combo. It is very difficult to double major in science or engineering and especially Asian languages because they are so difficult. What most people do not realize is that languages have labs just like science classes and these students spend more hours in class than most other majors; plus the workload for each major is higher.</p>

<p>My daughter is at a different university, but she had scheduling conflicts four of her first five semesters with math or physics and her Asian language. She talked with professors and was allowed to miss up to 40 percent of lectures so she could complete both classes. I don’t know how flexible all schools would be. DD’s physics professor was helpful; the Japanese prof did not want to accommodate the conflict at all.</p>

<p>You might take a look at how many sections are offered of the different subjects to determine which school would make the double major easier to do.</p>

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<p>I think if she wants engineering then she should go where they have an actual engineering major. W&L is a great school but if they do not have what your D wants to study then what’s the point?</p>

<p>WJC does not sound like a great option for her. After all the drama of transferring she STILL won’t have the degree she wants. </p>

<p>My son will be attending CWRU in the fall as an economics major. The engineering programs are top notch. Even if your D does not wind up minoring in Asian Studies CWRU offers lots of options for her. Cleveland offers more opportunities for internships PLUS she will get her degree in what she wants! The debt load of bet $20-$25K upon graduation seems manageable to me.</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone for all of the wonderful comments and suggestions. I was not aware that Columbia might not meet all need. DD said she would prefer Vandy (but a lot can change in 3 years to change that opinion). I have no idea of my income since I have been in a Master’s program and am now in a big transition period myself. It can really only go up…but how that would effect her college costs, well, we will have to take that year by year and see. She was guaranteed not to loose her FA by WJC just because she was also offered an athletic scholarship. FA was more, so coach just said if FA goes down then she can have the Athletic scholarship to replace. </p>

<p>My one personal argument for her IF W&L were to offer her a spot is that If for whatever reason she decided she was not going to pursue engineering, then being debt free and going through W&L’s Asian Studies program would be a huge plus. She has $20,000 in an annuity from a injury settlement that she could save and not spend. Annuity $ is not counted in a student’s assets. She will have to use it at CWRU and WJC. So, that $ could go for a Master’s program. BUT, I realize that is assuming she were called off the Waitlist, and I don’t want to get her hoping in something that might not even happen.</p>

<p>I guess once we set foot on campus this week and she spends the night at Case, we will have a better idea for her to make a good decision.</p>

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<p>One thing to consider is that language courses can consume a significant amount of schedule space and may be hard to fit into the schedule along with the major and the minor.</p>

<p>Is Mandarin Chinese language available at a local* community college during the summers? That may be one way of taking the language courses without cramping the regular college schedule.</p>

<p>*Or local to internship locations in later summers.</p>