<p>DD has been accepted at Princeton!! Wow! When she applied, we told her we would buy her a sweatshirt if she was accepted, but of course now that the dream has become reality, she wants to reneg. She has been accepted as a Eugene duPont Distinguished scholar at UDel, a full ride for 4 years. Also, accepted at PSU Schreyer with a full-ride (due to staff discount and outside scholarship). Princeton's offer is wonderful - this year they are asking us for $8,700 (including DD work study and summer earnings). Likely not much will change next year because we have another child in college and our combined incomes are less than 100K and maxed out - cost of living increases only. When D#1 graduates, costs will jump and DD will likely have to take out $20,000 plus in loans over jr & sr year. We have a 3rd child to educate as well and not much savings as I entered the workforce late - after age 40. </p>
<p>DD wants to major in mechanical engineering and minor in classical guitar - she can do this at UDel, can't do this at PSU, and can likely get a performance certificate at Princeton. Also, the classical guitar instructor at Princeton studied with Segovia (wow). My gut feeling is UDel and no debt. I want to counsel her wisely, but in the end, she's got to be happy with her choice. She will do what her Dad and I want, she's that kind of kid, but we want what is best for her in the long run. Key term is long run - </p>
<p>Many of you alumni and Princeton students probably turned down full rides, was it/is it worth it? Was the debt overwhelming? Can you put a price on the opportunity to learn from and with some of the brightest minds in the world? Thanks for your input.</p>
<p>Congratulations on some wonderful choices. If I understand you correctly, the overall cost for Princeton would be about $57000 more than UDel. Although I hesitate to counsel taking on debt, if Princeton is your daughter's dream school (and it's not necessarily clear that it is), I believe that in terms of earning potential, a Princeton degree would probably be worth that level of debt. As an alumna, I can tell you that Princeton is a wonderful place. The academics are truly extraordinary and the professors are available, supportive and often inspiring. The musical scene is quite good and the current administration is trying to make it even better. Although I don't know much about engineering, obviously Princeton is extremely strong in that area.</p>
<p>Thanks amnesia - are you an alum? midatlmom, debt for her would likely be around 30k total, appreciate your opinion. Do you know anything about their choirs?</p>
<p>Nope, I'm not an alum but when I interviewed with Princeton, who is now a great friend and I plan to keep in touch, said that Princeton helped him in more ways than he can describe. I'll be attending Princeton for the class of 2010 and can't wait!</p>
<p>Their choir? Princeton.edu is featuring the choir on the front picture right now... well, the a capella group</p>
<p>When I attended Princeton (quite a while back), I was a member of the Princeton University Glee Club. It was a really good group and I still receive mailings about it--it performs regularly at Princeton and has also toured Europe a number of times. There are also a number of acapella groups that are fun and perform regularly. In addition, the school is really focusing on the arts right now--the dance scene is thriving and there has just been a $101 million dollar gift to build a new performing arts center (although I doubt it will be finished within the next four years). I also performed in Theater Intime plays and in Gilbert and Sullivan operettas and I have no doubt that current students have many performing opportunities. </p>
<p>Of course, the music and arts scene at UDel could be equally rich--I just don't know anything about it.</p>
<p>Congratulations to your d on her great choices. As students get older there are various ways to make money on campus and off, and this seems preferable to taking out a lot of loans. For example, I am wondering whether she could give guitar lessons to local kids while at Princeton. This pays really well. She might find herself in a band and get gigs. Maybe she would like to contact the music department and find out about the possibilities. </p>
<p>Students run businesses on campus, become RAs, become eating club officers, wait on tables at reunions and other events, and so on, and all of these activities either reduce expenses or pay pretty nicely. You can even get paid to do community service! Also many students during the summer after junior year (and some the summer after sophomore year) get jobs with very high-paying firms; they can make $10,000 or more in a summer, and a female engineer would be much in demand. There are many enterprising kids (from all income levels) on campus and she would be in good company. </p>
<p>If it were my daughter I would also call financial aid (maybe you've already done so) and get a very clear picture of how they see those last two years shaping up. They ought to understand that you have another child coming along. Be sure to let them know what her other choice is and see what they have to say. </p>
<p>I know many of the public honors colleges are excellent. As a Princeton parent who finds the costs very high, I nonetheless have to say I consider the opportunities there priceless, especially when you count in the easy access to funding for internships, study abroad, research, etc.</p>
<p>The average starting salary for a mechanical engineer coming out of Princeton last year was $53,286, and I suspect it goes up rapidly after that. $30,000 should be a manageable debt if Princeton is where your child really wants to go. A very large majority of Princeton students probably could have attended the honors program at their states flagship university. They and their families decided that the opportunities that Princeton offered were worth the price. Every situation is different. I encourage your daughter and you to go to the April hosting and then decide. You have no bad choices, and whichever you pick will probably turn out to be the best. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your informative responses. We are looking forward to the April hosting as a time to experience and explore the possibilities at Princeton. You're right in that she has some wonderful choices!</p>
<p>OhMother, yes its a dilemma. Id like to offer my 2 pesos on this subject and hoping that my opinion would not further provoke lovely nopoisonivys anger.</p>
<p>First of all, congrats on your Ds outstanding accomplishments; you should be proud of her. </p>
<p>Now if shes determined for engineering, I would suggest she take PSU or UDEL honor program (full ride). Not only she will have a free honor education, she will have wonderful opportunities doing research along with graduate students and professors, hence sharpening her engineering skills necessary for her future career. PSU and UDEL each have a wonderful engineering research program. UDEL has the world-class composite engineering center, where inter-department (material, mechanical, chemical) research and educations are performed with world-renowned professors. PSU also has a wonderful multi ongoing engineering research programs. I think they have a Rotorcraft Research Center (only three universities in US) and other multi- year million dollar programs. As an honor upperclassman engineering student, she will have a wonderful opportunities working side-by-side with graduate students and excellent professors, including designing a UAV or helicopter design contest. Dont get me wrong, Princeton has a respectable reputation for their engineering departments, but I must say that their engineering programs are leaned too much toward theoretical side, too skimpy side on engineering research and manufacturing. We all know the value of hands-on experiences in engineering</p>
<p>Next, if she leans toward engineering now, but not quite sure, then Princeton is worthy of 30K and your familys sublime sacrifices, mainly due to its all-around education opportunities. There is a reason why Princeton has its irreplaceable entity in Big Five (HPYSM) undergraduate studies. One caveat is that Princeton may not be a good environment for a middle class engineering kid. There seems to be a class-division present in the campus, and maybe this is the main reason for your Ds renegade . But, its a decision you and your D must make.</p>
<p>Again, go visit schools and feel the vibe and decide wisely.</p>
<p>I wish all the best for your daughter and family</p>
<p>I'm glad that you're planning on visiting during April hosting. Although as I mentioned, I don't know much about engineering, according to US News and World Report, Princeton ranks 12 in engineering programs, while Penn State is 18th and UDel is 51st. However, no doubt each school has different strengths and that would be something important for you and your daughter to explore.</p>
<p>I do want to make a statement about WhetDreamWeaver's comments. I am not aware of any middle class student being uncomfortable at Princeton, nor am I aware of any significant class divisions on campus. This year, over 60% of the kids accepted come from public schools (last year, Yale was 57% public school kids) and approximately 50% percent receive some form of aid. The old outdated stereotypes of Princeton as a bastion of preppy conservatism unfortunately seem to linger, but in my experience (fairly active alumni and pretty knowledgeable about the school), they are simply not true. In any event, I think that each potential student should judge for him/herself and I hope that you and your daughter have a terrific time during April hosting.</p>
<p>Thank you both for your opinions, you seem very informed on both engineering and Princeton (and I am not an expert on either, other than the research done through the college application process). One of the reasons DD has prioritized UDel over PSU is that her scholarship there is not dependent on major. She has always loved music, math, and writing. One of her essays mentioned that nothing is more satisfying to her than the resolution of a mathematical proof or a dissonant minor second chord. My understanding is that PSU is stronger in mechanical engineering than both UDel and Princeton, but her scholarship will disappear if she changes majors, and she has a slight bit of uncertainty on this. </p>
<p>Separate question: do you think graduating from UDel as a duPont Scholar would open similar doors as a b.s. degree from Princeton (assuming the engineering major)?</p>
<p>Mechanical Engineering degree (with honor on her transcript) will not only open multiple doors to Top Eng. Grad Schools (MIT, Stanford, and Berkeley) if she wants to further her education, but also many companies (including NASA, Boeing helicopters, top government agencies) as well.</p>
<p>As far as class divisions being a factor at Princeton, I personally do not see any problems. I am a low-income and first-generation West Coaster; when I visited Princeton, my host and all the random people I bumped into over the course of two days were all incredibly down-to-earth and amiable. Needless to say, I am definitely picking Princeton over my other schools. :)</p>