And we say jumped MSU went from 33k full cycle last year to 60k by Jan… Penn state from 70k full cycle to 100k and waitlist by end of Jan … penn state waitlists? That’s by itself is crazy
IMO parents are mostly to blame. Parents can place clear limits on the amount of money they are willing to spend on applications. We did. We told my d19 we would pay for up to 7 applications, beyond that she would need to pay for extras.
She carefully evaluated her options and applied to 4 schools, one of which was a free application because of an award she had won.
I also think the marketing intensity is part of where it comes from. Aside from the snail mail, kids (and parents) are being targeted by online marketing. I knew (mostly because of CC) that the emails from big schools weren’t personal invitations and were just marketing. My daughter’s friends and their families truly believed and colleges like UChicago and Yale really wanted them to apply and that their applications were more likely to be accepted. They didn’t believe my daughter when she told them it’s marketing.
The common app making it easier to apply is part of the effect, but IMO it’s more minor to personal responsibility and research.
@mom2twogirls I think that parents are encouraging/allowing more apps because acceptenaces are all over the place now. It really has become difficult to predict matches and safeties for strong students. Naviance is not much help since it doesn’t show the hooks and doesn’t reflect the most recent data. In addition many high schools don’t even have that information available. I think blaming parents or students is off base.
Penn State is a great example. Almost every student in the top 20% of our suburban school put in an application and most were banking on at least a chance at Schreyer. They use it as their safety for when they don’t get into Penn or whatever top 20 they are aiming for the will head to happy valley like their siblings, cousins, neighbors, and parents did. This happens every year and every year our school sends between 50-100 students to PSU main campus, many top students. This year that was a huge mistake. The vast majority of these students were offered two years at a commuter campus or satellite campus and then two at main. These kids who would have been happy to attend their safety are now left with their reach chances coming soon or a gap year. They are not going to attend a PSU branch and are unlikely to win the golden tickets at their reaches. Many of these amazing students also applied and were accepted to a few other state schools but did not make it to final rounds for top scholars or win the big competitive merit awards. Without the big prizes those schools are not affordable. Most that we talked to apply to 5-7 schools: 1-2 big lotteries, 2 -4 OOS publics and privates with big merit possibilities, and PSU. Those parents are wishing they had put in 5-10 more apps at this point.
We are watching as parents of juniors and you bet we are going to apply far and wide. The process has change so much in just the two years since my oldest went through.
^I’m with @bamamom2021 My DD will also be applying far and wide. I don’t think 15 applications is out of the question. It’s a matter of self-preservation with acceptances as skewed as they are these days.
I don’t blame parents either. If yield and/or acceptance rates were removed from the rankings, this problem would solve itself. Ratings should be based on things like number of classes under X kids who are actually taught by professors (not TAs) and alumni satisfaction surveys within five years of graduation… things like that. Also get rid of the big list of best universities and instead publish a multitude of lists of top 50 schools by major.
Between yield protection and small acceptance rates and the fact that my kid is homeschooled (with outside grades and AP/SAT2 test scores and dual enrollment, but still), I will not discourage my kid from applying to as many schools as she can (as long as she genuinely likes each school and can genuinely handle all those supplemental essays). There are too many X factors involved in admission decisions, even with high scores and rigorous classes and stellar ECs etc etc etc. The whole thing seems like a lotto. A few of the ones she really likes with acceptance rates above 50% seemed to yield protect even kids who showed a lot of interest this year. The whole process is difficult and the outcomes will be unpredictable. We are two years away from this - the 50% admission rate schools might well be 30% admission rate schools by winter/spring 2021. Arg.
mom2girls - we fell for the Uof Chicago propaganda, as did many at our HS. Just a true waste of time. Live and learn.
What is happening at Penn State is just crazy! A lot of our HS kids go there - this year not only are most starting at satellite campuses, but many going to main campus are required to do summer session first. $$
Groundwork2022 - great suggestions.
I agree with you OP. I think the common app is the cause for much of this craziness.
That said, we capped the number of schools for our DD. She applied to 8 schools - 2 reaches, 2 safeties, 4 matches.
IMO, sending more time crafting well planned applications to a smaller number of schools makes more sense. As it was she had 18 essays to write and didn’t reuse any.
I think there is a problem with the common app just like there is one with the coalition app. The ease of these apps coupled with “rankings” mania has created a flood of apps to the same 100-150 schools. By getting sucked in to the game, students/parents are overlooking hundreds of other fine schools that have the ability to offer need and merit based aid.
totally agree @bamamom2021 I have ten years between my oldest and youngest. My oldest applied to 10 schools in 2010, ED to William and Mary, got in and was done. Second oldest applied to 9 schools in 2012, EA to PSU, got in and was done. Third was auditioning for BFAs - totally different creature. Youngest D20? Will apply to at least 15 schools. And every one is a crap shoot. Even her supposed safety/likely schools. It’s madness.
My son applied to 16 schools. It seemed crazy in the fall, but now that almost all his decisions are out, I’m glad he did it (and that I didn’t do much to discourage it). If he’d cut that list in half, he’d be looking at a much different/smaller list of acceptances to pick from right now, and I’m not sure he’d be happy with his choices. He had a very realistic list based on his stats (he’s not one of those kids who applied to every Ivy and then a token state school he didn’t want to go to for a safety), but the results were all over the place. Of his 4 favorites, he was rejected at the most selective (11% acceptance rate), waitlisted at the 2 least selective (20-25ish% acceptance rates), and admitted to the second most selective (16% acceptance rate). He’s choosing between 4 great schools right now, at least one or two of which he likely wouldn’t have applied to had his list been more “reasonable.” Getting through two weeks of getting waitlisted was ROUGH, but I can’t say it would have been smarter to do things differently given how brutal and unpredictable it is out there right now.
I think this is pretty much a known problem. Yield protection leads to more applications resulting in lower yields, but no one has a good solution.
Just curious, how many schools would your child have applied to if they had to complete a completely different app for each school ? Isn’t the common app partially to blame for running the admissions statistics askew? I’m embarrassed to say that my daughter applied to schools that she had no intention of attending because the common app just made it “too easy”.
She may have taken the spot of another kids dream school - which quite frankly - sucks ! Also, I believe that schools are using the common app to make big bucks for admission. Why not roll the dice and apply to a high reach - just for a couple of extra essays? But the schools are raking in $75-125$ per applicant. For a popular school that’s BIG money - millions and millions of dollars in app fees.
I also wonder if commonapp shares or sells the application data to your kids competing schools. To my knowledge, Nowhere does it state that their admission data will be kept confidential.
Oddly, I have noticed that on the days that she receives admission results, she is overwhelmed with marketing emails from schools she’s already been accepted to.
Thoughts??
D3 applied 4 schools abroad, 2 x Canada and 2 x Europe where academic achievement is the only determinant in admissions, she was accepted to all 4, 3 of which ranked in world top 50…She was deferred at our mid tier Big Ten state flagship. The US system is broken, the tertiary education system has become a business where students are the customers and until this fact is recognized you cannot have an honest debate. The common app is just one symptom of this toxic environment.
@wondering2233 , on that topic, when we were at Georgetown they specifically said they keep their own application because it’s a signal that students take the effort to fill it in rather than just “check another box” on the common app.
D19 applied to Tulane without me knowing - because there’s no fee and the essay was optional. She certainly wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t on the common app. (She withdrew the application after getting into her ED school though.)
I am shocked Michigan State has a waitlist! Common app effect
The other CSHE schools and the PASSHE schools are not desirable enough to use as likelies or safeties for Pennsylvania students who can afford them?
Something that like can be seen in California, where some students will turn their noses up on UCSC, UCR, and UCM even though these may be the UCs that they are likely to get admitted to (with the others being high match to reach). Never mind what they think of CSUs other than CPSLO…
Your daughter didn’t take anybody’s spot.
If a college has 2000 spots to fill, they will send out enough admits (based off of historical yield) to fill most of those spots and go off of the WL to fill the rest. In the end, 2000 kids will attend.
@ucbalumnus, I mean, they’re turning their nose up on branch-PSU’s, where in many cases, they could transfer to PSU-main in 2 years.
@airway1, it’s not like MSU is open admissions.
Using the WL to manage your acceptances actually makes a lot of sense from a school’s perspective. Much better than overshooting and ending up with more freshmen than you have beds for.
@purpletitan well to go from 85% acceptance last year to waitlist in feb? That’s crazy… same goes with penn state … it’s not managing but huge jump in applicants