I think for BME, there is an oversupply of graduates.
Rockwell Collins has tons of listings just outside of Podunk.
Late to this interesting discussion. BS EE, MS BME from 30 years ago. Replying to a few different points here.
Engineers just out of school having difficulty finding a job probably have some other issue going on. They do a terrible interview or are terrible at following up, are too picky about opportunities, or do not have the practical skills expected of someone with their degree. There are plenty of entry level jobs out there. BTW - except for the big companies processing tons of applications GPA is generally not a filter for getting an interview.
An engineering degree teaches you to solve problems and work collaboratively on projects. Yes, staying an engineer requires continuous education. My EE father pointed out that the EE I learned in my intro to engineering class he learned in grad school; and told me 50% of what I learned in undergrad would be obsolete by the time i graduated. But I did learn to solve a problem, and how to look up and teach myself what I needed to know to figure things out.
An engineering education can be applied in many, many other fields and transitioning is easy. I have led marketing groups for decades and would say that close to 50% of the marketing people I have hired had an engineering degree. I know engineers in sales, business, finance, consulting, etc. Engineering is a starting place from where you can go anywhere.
Engineering academically is tremendous if you love it, and abjectly miserable if you do not. No one should do engineering academics just to get a well-paying job - they should only do it if they find it so fun they cannot imagine doing anything else. I had little in common with my fellow engineering students (female, extrovert, artist, double major in English, etc.) but I still loved the three am sessions in the basement working on the lab assignment.
I’m starting to think the key with any major is not to get locked into a specific region and being willing and able to relocate when and if necessary. That may also mean reevaluating whether or not purchasing a home is a wise investment.
Yes, that is tough about renting vs. buying, especially when young and possibly wanting more flexibility about jobs, opportunities, locations. Once a person is married, has children, there can be more of a pull for many (but not all) to buy,.
IMO, the clever engineer purchases a home at or slightly below the median value for the city, and resists the temptation to super size it when things are looking good. This gives the clever engineer more options when the company genuflects to the last quarter’s results and ritually shivers off another 10-15%. That modest house is reasonably liquid; the McMansion is not.
Homes shouldn’t be looked at as an investment. Would argue for renting until you have kids and there aren’t rental units with the suitable space and yard for a growing family.
Who here would like STEM (and not just engineering) to be a bubble that will burst soon?
Who here would revel in schadenfreude when that happens?
While I personally believe that engineering is career limiting, I do not think engineering is a bubble that is about to burst anytime soon.
^Certainly seems like some folks would. Which is silly considering how much of the advancement of human society is due to STEM. Yes, the arts and humanities also are a plus, but while Shakespeare contributed to civilization, nobody alive now would actually want to live with the healthcare, sanitation, and technology of his era.
In my opinion buying reasonable house as soon as possible after graduation is better than renting. Considering that most professionals start family in late 20th early 30th it doesn’t make sense to rent for so long if one can afford to buy.
@Ballerina016, not when real estate, when averaged across time and place and taking out maintenance costs, barely appreciates (but in certain locales, it can undergo massive decades-long bubbles; also busts).
Yes, some of that these days with real estate seems very dependent on location and luck. Some former renters that buy can be blindsided by unforeseen maintenance costs. No more calling the landlord if something breaks. It’s now on you. Which may make sense if you are pretty confident you will be staying put for awhile in an area that tends to appreciate, but even appreciation is not always a given these days.
So what this thread is saying is to not go into work tomorrow?
I jest, but I think I’m going to need to either reread this thread or not look back at it again.
I would save the time. It is a traditional sour grapes thread.
Thank you for the looking out, @1Wife1Kid!
I am here to serve.
I didn’t find engineering to be remotely career limiting, nor did the other startup people I knew, of which a couple ended up on the Forbes 400 for a while.
Buying vs renting is a complicated issue. Renting is the best choice for some, and buying is the best choice for others. It depends on region, field of work, financial situation, and life situation among numerous other factors. There is not a simple rule like always rent, or always buy as soon as possible.
In many fields of engineering, jobs tend to be concentrated in certain areas for historical reasons. An example is Silicon Valley. My field of engineering has a similar large number of companies and jobs in an area of Southern CA, where I live. I’ve known many people who switched from one company to another, but they almost always stayed in the same region and same home during the transition. Given the large number of nearby tech companies in the field, I doubt that staying open to easily relocate is a key for meeting life or career goals in this situation, assuming you want to stay in the same field of engineering.
However, this does not mean everyone in this situation should buy a home. The large number of tech jobs and being in a desirable area of coastal CA has contributed to high home prices. One could easily spend 7 figures on a basic 3 bedroom type home. Purchasing even a 1-bedroom condo is probably out of the range of recent grads, especially if they still haven’t paid off school loans and such. Instead they are often forced to rent for financial reasons, sometimes renting a room, rather than a standard apartment. And when engineers in this climate can afford a home without excessive debt, then they need to consider that this type of area is especially susceptible to rapidly changing home prices. For example, one of the towns in my area had a median home sale price of $500k in 2000, $1.5 million in 2007, $900k in 2009, and $1.5 million in 2015.
In my opinion, real estate can still be a good investment in this situation, if you research adequately and find the right property at the right time. For example, when I bought my home I looked at historical market trends and recognized when the real estate prices had been increasing at an unsustainable rate and were due for a correction. I waited until after the correction before buying. I spent months looking for the right property for me, considering the criteria I was looking for, including things that would make my day-to-day life more enjoyable, and market value. I ended up closing on a short-sale on the day before it became a foreclosure, which contributed to getting the home at ~20% below market value, not including ~$100k worth of A/V equipment that was negotiated in to the sale. The chance of a loss in this situation is well within my risk tolerance, especially considering the length of time I expect to remain. I’d expect engineers and others who enjoy problem solving are more likely to be the type to carefully consider and analyze the decision before buying like this, increasing the chance of a positive outcome.
Our S is an EE. While he is good at coding, it is not his passion. He had 3 job offers by Feb of his SR year of college. He took the one he liked best and has been a project manager for 3 different projects for 3 years and now has switched to a new job which he’s held the past two years (promotion + raise), with robotics, flying drones and wearable tech, plus a bit of project managing. So far, he seems pretty happy after 5 years with his employer. There has been no talk of outsourcing his job, tho when the economy slows, they sometimes don’t fill openings and people have to have expanded responsibilities. S has always loved science, math and puzzles, so EE is a great fit for him.
Some areas of engineering are more competitive with fewer openings than others. One thing that was really key for S and his friends who had job offers was to do internships and research while a student, to have some practical skills to bring to the job. Having a good GPA of 3.5+ is also very helpful.
We are urging S to get a MBA, MEE or some grad degree, but he’s in no rush.
Engineering is “career limiting” in the sense that those who truly enjoy engineering are often not interested in being managers … and being a manager is how an engineer progresses is his/her career, in many organizations. My H has a Master of Science in Administration, but he has turned down managerial jobs throughout his career … he doesn’t want to be a boss, he wants to do the engineering work. But he has never considered his choice to be career-limiting; rather, it is the career he chose because he loves being an engineer. He makes more money every year, so while we don’t have a giant house or a huge retirement account, we do live very comfortably. Give the guy a test to run & he’ll be happy … put him in meeting after meeting to discuss stuff “about” engineeering, and you’d have a guy who would already be retired.