<p>As far as I know, Chinese kids do good in math because they practice ALOT. I got friends from China who used to spend 5 hours a day doing calculus and problem solving questions. He told me that he's probably seen almost every type math question they can get.</p>
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Based on this, does anyone else think that we need a real challenge? You know, something for people to really shoot for? Sure, Harvard only accepts 1500 out of the 1.4 million high school graduates each year, but that is still over 0.1%.
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<p>You're forgetting an important factor. Let's not forget that it's not only Americans who want to go to Harvard. Harvard draws an applicant pool from the best students in the world, including China, India, and the other countries that were mentioned here. Let's not also forget that Harvard offers full need-based aid to all students it admits including internationals. Hence, it may actually be cheaper for a poor Indian to attend Harvard than to attend IIT, or a poor Chinese person to attend Harvard than to attend a Chinese university.</p>
<p>The point is, when you include international applicants, I think we can agree that the relevant percentage is far far lower than 0.1%.</p>
<p>^yup. MIT accepted 3 people from China last year, I believe.</p>
<p>my parents grew up during the cultural revolution as well... and unfortunately, they didnt make it into any sort of university or anything. but we turned out fine after coming to the U.S... and i'll be first to go to college in my family!</p>
<p>Guys, stop saying IIT is the toughest university to get into in the world. IT IS NOT. It's so often debated here that it's getting ridiculous.</p>
<p>Still, though, those universities are tougher to get into than Harvard if the applicant is not international.</p>
<p>yeah yeah yeah.. so what if IIT, Xinghua and the trillion other universities are harder to get into than HYPSM? Does it make them better universities? Does it give them some kind of super advantage over HYPSM because they admit less people? Take a look at the international ranking for the top universities in the world and you will find U.S. universities sitting on top of the list. Q.E.D.</p>
<p>lets not forget xinghua = 99.999999999% academics.</p>
<p>You need no EC's. all you need are insanely high national standardized test scores. although you get like 20 free marks on your test score if you are an international athelete</p>
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Still, though, those universities are tougher to get into than Harvard if the applicant is not international.
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<p>I find that doubtful. The fact is, Harvard draws from an applicant pool that represent the best in the world. The very best foreign students often times apply to Harvard. But I don't know too many strong American students who want to go to Asian universities. Furthermore, the Harvard applicant pool is unified. It's not like Harvard has a set number of seats for domestic applicants and another set for international applicants. It's all one unified set. Harvard adjusts the number of seats for international students depending on how good the international applicant body is. </p>
<p>Hence, to get into Harvard, even as an American applicant, you still have to compete against the best students from America as well as the best students from India and the best students from China and the best students from everywhere else. To get admitted, you have to be a standpoint among all the applicants, whether they are foreign or domestic. To get into a school in China, you only have to compete against just the best students in China, which is obviously no picnic, but is easier to competing against all the students in the world.</p>
<p>Why do you say that Harvard's applicant pool is unified without the internationality of the applicant being considered?</p>
<p>Ok, sakky. You've just proven that it's more difficult for Chinese students to get into Harvard than Qinghua, but it's not true for domestic students. Students in the U.S. don't have to be nearly as qualified as the international students to be admitted to Harvard. Thus, as an American applicant, you are NOT competing directly with internationals.</p>
<p>irock1ce, i dont think u can simply say they are not better university simply because US unis are ranked higher. so Harvard is ranked, first, does it actually make it the best school then? i dont think so. im not saying tht qinghua is better than hyp becuz its harder to get in, but i think saying tht they are ranked lower is not an arguement tht they are worst then hyp. im a chinese n i do smack the sat math : P, but i slack like hell haha. its true tht harvard evaluates the best students from the 'world', but in a way, they are also missing out those geniuses tht only applies to china. i think in terms of quality, the applicants are on par. just wat i feel tho.</p>
<p>My whole point with that post was simply that everyone here is acting like selectivity is the same thing as quality of education. Simply said, I am not trying to bash those universities (xinghua,beida,iit), but I am only trying to differentiate between selectivity of "perceived quality". Many internationals on this forum are quick to act like those universities are much higher in quality because of their selectivity. The end of my last post is just an attempt at a joke to say disprove the selectivity = quality idea. </p>
<p>I'm Chinese and I love my country and I hope that one day those universities will measure up to HYPSM. But until then, their resources, attitude on education, corruption and closed-minded atmosphere will continue to hold them back. Don't believe me? I live next to UC Berkeley and I have (as well as my father) talked to many graduate students from Xinghua and Beida. Why did they come here? A lot of those kids were dedicated to math, science, etc. but all said that the atmosphere in China was just not as free or capable to develop and foment new ideas. Their contention is that until the rigid Chinese government that controls and regulates liberalizes, there is simply limited research opportunities in China as of now, thus, even reducing the research and educational qualities of there universities.</p>
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...everyone here is acting like selectivity is the same thing as quality of education. Simply said...I am only trying to differentiate between selectivity of "perceived quality". Many internationals on this forum are quick to act like those universities are much higher in quality because of their selectivity. The end of my last post is just an attempt at a joke to say disprove the selectivity = quality idea.
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<p>Amen. Just being Harvard admits fewer students than College X doesn't mean that Harvard is in any way superior academically.</p>
<p>I find it rather sad how many people on this board want to apply to selective schools for the mere fact that they are selective! I wonder how many of these people would be applying to Harvard if it were ranked #130? Probably ZERO. And the truth is, I don't even think that anyone is going to try to deny that because being highly ranked really is that important to them.</p>
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And the truth is, I don't even think that anyone is going to try to deny that because being highly ranked really is that important to them.
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Yes it is. It is not our fault that the schools ranked the highest will offer us the most opportunities. Prestige IS important to us because it is a reward for what we have to suffer through high school to get there. </p>
<p>When you are at a racetrack, would you bet on the horse that has the biggest odds of winning or the pony with the cute alias?</p>
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Why do you say that Harvard's applicant pool is unified without the internationality of the applicant being considered?
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Ok, sakky. You've just proven that it's more difficult for Chinese students to get into Harvard than Qinghua, but it's not true for domestic students. Students in the U.S. don't have to be nearly as qualified as the international students to be admitted to Harvard. Thus, as an American applicant, you are NOT competing directly with internationals.
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<p>You're not competing directly, head-to-head. But the fact is, you are competing indirectly. There is no "China quota" or "India quota" at Harvard. Hence, if a slew of extremely highly qualified Chinese candidates were to apply to Harvard, then Harvard would take more of them than they would in a normal year, which would reduce the number of seats available to American candidates. It is true that a Chinese candidate would have to be extraordinary to beat out an American candidate. But the fact remains that competition exists, if indirectly. </p>
<p>The real point is that Harvard admissions draws upon a far more international and broader applicant base than does any university in China and India. That's what I'm trying to say.</p>
<p>The Chinese and/or the Indians could kick my caucasian frontal lobe's sorry ass any day.</p>
<p>And you know what? I'm OK with that.</p>
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the schools ranked the highest will offer us the most opportunities
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<p>If you really believe this, I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you.</p>
<p>You, and YOU ALONE, will determine your opportunities. Sure, a degree from a top 30 (yes, I did say 30, not 5) school may open some doors for you intially, but your success is ultimately going to rest on YOUR performance, YOUR charisma, and YOUR determination, none of which can be taught.</p>
<p>Look, college is what you make out of it. People who get into the prestigious universities but decline it to go to a cheaper state university make just as much money later on in life as the people who ended up attending the prestigious universities. I agree with semiserious totally; people on this board think that the university that they go to will guarantee or deny them success for their whole life.</p>
<p>ok semiserious, why are you on here then? If you don't really give a crap about where you go. Just earn some good grades and go to a state school, simple as that. Because honestly, whether you like to believe it or not, a good college(top 15) will guarantee better opportunities because of strong alumni connections as long as you don't flunk out. </p>
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people on this board think that the university that they go to will guarantee or deny them success for their whole life
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and this board is full of hypocrits as well</p>