<p>^ …
</p>
<p>Thank you Tigerdad,</p>
<p>At least one person here understands statistics.</p>
<p>Ahhh.
This thread has so degenerated.
And, when it comes to the OP’s question, who really knows? You guys? It doesn’t matter whose stats boots are bigger. </p>
<p>*Espenshade noted that…he did not have access to what he called “soft variables,” like extracurriculars and teacher recommendations.</p>
<p>“The data we had is only part of the data that admission deans have access to,” Espenshade said. “If we had access to the full range of info, it could put Asian candidates in a different light. This so-called ‘Asian disadvantage’ does not necessarily mean that Asian applicants are being discriminated against.”</p>
<p>Also, since the study used data from 1997, “it would be desirable to replicate the study on more recent data,” Espenshade said. “It’s kind of hard to know how and to what extent things might have changed in the meantime.”*</p>
<p>2009, Daily Princetonian</p>
<p>Now, can we stop the mocking?
You don’t know what’s going on.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>They still favor legacies and developmental admits, right? They also have a strong preference for athletes, whom they found to be more financially successful (i.e. more potential donations later) despite their lower academic credentials, according to Gladwell’s article.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sports leagues and teams need whatever diversity their fans want to see, since the fans ultimately pay the bills (either directly with ticket sales, or indirectly through media, licensed merchandise, etc.). Of course, the fans may not care at all, being mainly concerned about winning versus losing. (However, it was not that long ago that black NFL quarterbacks faced various stereotypes based on being black.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Tigerdad: I gave you a chance to back up your allegations. but not only don’t you understand base statistics, you do not even understand the assumptions that form the base statistics. I suspect as much from the start. Thanks for proving it. There is no Asian discrimination. It’s a myth born of the refusal to believe that all races are equally intelligent. Asians are just like everyone else, no better or worse, so get over yourself.</p>
<p>^Kid, if you are serious about this debate, I suggest you read the entire book of “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life”. There are other books that discussed the discrimination in college admission as well. Here is a list of summer readings for you. </p>
<p>“The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton” by by Jerome Karabel </p>
<p>“Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It” by Richard Sander & Stuart Taylor Jr.</p>
<p>“The Price of Admission: How America’s Ruling Class Buys Its Way into Elite Colleges – and Who Gets Left Outside the Gates” by Daniel Golden </p>
<p>“Wounds That Will Not Heal: Affirmative Action and Our Continuing Racial Divide” by Russell K Nieli </p>
<p>“The Gatekeepers: Inside the Admissions Process of a Premier College” by Jacques Steinberg </p>
<p>Report back to me after you finish all summer readings and tell me what you have learned.</p>
<p>And of course, for you lookingforward</p>
<p>The Myth of American Meritocracy
How corrupt are Ivy League admissions?
By RON UNZ • November 28, 2012</p>
<p>[The</a> Myth of American Meritocracy](<a href=“http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/]The”>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/)</p>
<p>You are welcome.</p>
<p>Nice list. </p>
<p>I’d also recommend Stat 101 review book.</p>
<p>I said:
</p>
<p>and sosomenza replied:
</p>
<p>Ok, so let me get this straight: students all over the country with tippy-top GPAs in extremely rigorous curricula and tippy-top standardized test scores, great extracurriculars and community service, etc., etc. should self-regulate by NOT applying to tippy-top colleges and universities? Yeah, that makes sense.</p>
<p>Tdad, what makes you an authority? You haven’t said. Seems you’re outside the process. Did you consider that popular (read: sellable) books written by other outsiders don’t offer magic truths?</p>
<p>Seriously nothing new is being covered here. If you like to argue go on … if you are seeking understanding and opposing viewpoints consider reading these threads … </p>
<p>700+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>1500+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1482374-all-colleges-rejected-me.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1482374-all-colleges-rejected-me.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>2500+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1462037-how-did-he-get.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1462037-how-did-he-get.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>400+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1036897-magnitude-asian-discrimination-i-mean-affirmative-action-stanford-admit.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1036897-magnitude-asian-discrimination-i-mean-affirmative-action-stanford-admit.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>1300+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1425554-how-corrupt-ivy-league-admissions.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1425554-how-corrupt-ivy-league-admissions.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>900+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1228264-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-9-a.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1228264-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-9-a.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>1400+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/927219-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-8-a.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/927219-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-8-a.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>200+ replies … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1219361-asian-students-aiming-top-colleges.html?highlight=espenshade[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1219361-asian-students-aiming-top-colleges.html?highlight=espenshade</a></p>
<p>(PS - you’ve missed the topic of the change in Berkley’s admissions since AA was outlawed in California … add this argument and this thread is well on the way to recreating the other threads).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes it does. I think most everyone understands this except for those who only think in terms of black and white, believing a few points higher on the SAT or GPA will put them to the front of the line. It won’t because after a certain point of excellence, Adcom will turn to the diversity of race, region and extra curricular skills, which I believe is correct.</p>
<p>@3togo, but seriously, what’s new in these links you sent? There are all kinds of different views I have heard or read or discussed on CC and more so outside CC. </p>
<p>I welcome intelligent and well argued debates. At the same time, it’s indeed very frustrating to see there are so many spin doctors on this forum trying to mislead kids.</p>
<p>@lookingforward, what make me an authority? I am not an authority - just an FYI. But I do believe in fairness, justice, equality, and opportunity for all. One doesn’t need to be an expert to believe in these values… And I also believe everyone should and must speak out in this debate of race preferential treatment in college admission. It impact not just my generation but also the next generation. Yes, I join the fight for all these aforementioned values.</p>
<p>Tigerdad: Enough cutting and pasting. It’s clear that you can’t form your own opinion. I gave you the courtesy of listening to your opinion and you gave back nothing but silence. My advice is for you to not follow these writers blindly, many of whom are nothing but special interest hit men, getting paid to write what the special interests tell them to write. If it hasn’t already happened, then expect to be hit up for donations by the special interests. It’s a typical scenario.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It is often said here that tippy-top schools are a reach for everyone. So Asian tippy-top kids aren’t allowed to have reach schools, they are supposed to self-select applying only to lower-ranked schools?</p>
<p>^kidsosomenza, my opinion is very simple & clear - race preferential treatment in college admission is wrong and harmful. </p>
<p>My advice for you is that I don’t need your courtesy to speak of truth. Thank you very much. And I am still waiting for your own opinion and arguments back with facts in this debate.</p>
<p>@oldmom4896, in fact, “Mismatch” author argued that the unqualified students who got into elite schools because of racial preference should go to a better “match” schools. These schools will produce high graduation rate for the minority students. There is another Duke study which says the same thing.</p>
<p>
My point is there will be nothing new in this tread … arguments that have been argued many times over and over on CC … while 99% of folks didn’t change their opinions. If you think you can cover new territory in this thread go for it … otherwise we’re just repeating discussions that have already happened.</p>
<p>@3togo, thank you for the reminder. But it seems to me a few people here are quite actively spreading rumors and myths about college admission. So I guess there is a market. Just to clarify - I am not here to change anyone’s mind (particularly minds like sosomenza’s) and don’t think anyone can change my mind either. I Just want my opinion to be heard.</p>