Is it possible to get into top tier engineering program with my situation?

Graduate School
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Here's my situation: B.S in industrial engineering with a 2.98 gpa from nc state. No research experience while in school. Looking to make a career change by getting a masters in either mechanical engineering or civil engineering (not sure which degree yet). Female with 5 1/2 years work experience as a consultant in an unrelated but technical field with a highly reputable company. Have not taken the GRE yet but have been studying like crazy and hope to do well. Took several classes last spring while I worked full time (a science class and lab at a community college and a grad level class at a local tier 4 school) and earned A's in them. Plan on taking an additional class this fall while I continue to work.</p>

<p>What do you think my chances are of getting into an engineering program at schools like berkeley, ucla, uc davis, uc santa barbara, uc irvine, and ucsd assuming I do well on the GRE? I realize that berkeley and ucla are a long shot given my gpa, but I am trying to stay positive. I plan on writing a very focused sop, explaining how my passion lies in the green industry (i either want to get into renewable energy or green building). I also plan on partipating in some local non-profit organizational events in this industry through networking events and possibly volunteering. </p>

<p>I can also honestly say that my low gpa as an IE was because I was simply not focused back then and did not really know what I wanted out of my career. I really think I picked the wrong major as an IE and was just not that into the course work. Now, I'm completely different. I have excelled at my current job, I can most likely get good letters of recommendations from my managers, and I have recently demonstrated that I can earn A's in school. Also, does being a female increase my chances in acceptance to an engineering program? What else can I do to offset my low gpa? My dream would be to get into berkeley, but UCLA woudn't be half bad either ;-)</p>

2

<p>this will come off as mean, but basically no shot. GRE means little in grad school admissions. It can keep you out but it won’t get you in. If you were to get into Berkeley, how can you/they be sure you’d succeed? Engineering courses are what count, and unfortunately community college offers little in this area. My best advice would be to try to take some courses at Berkeley or online through Berkeley to prove you belong.</p>

3

<p>I am sorry to say that top tier is probably not in your immediate future. Your gpa by itself is not a complete killer - it is possible to get accepted with a sub 3.0, but everything else would need to shine, and I do not see that. You appear to lack any research experience, have minimal experience in your field of interest, your LOR’s are both non-academic and non-research, your additional coursework is at an unimpressive institution. Even if your GRE’s are stellar they can only help a little - as Blah pointed out, they are mostly just used to exclude people. Your gender will not help you - admissions are generally gender blind, and while gender can and does figure into funding, masters funding is almost nonexistent.</p>

<p>If you want the masters now, you can probably still get in at the top-50 level, provided you are willing to pay your own way. If you want to do better than that you will need to spend a few years preparing. Stop attending community college and take some classes at a college within a “tier” of your intended schools. Get involved with research - some professors will take volunteer help from outside the university. You will need strong LOR’s from people who have observed you excelling in academic and research environments, plus a recent record of notable academic achievement.</p>

4

<p>Being a woman will help, but it cannot overcome deficiencies.</p>

<p>First, do the schools you mention have faculty who specialize in renewable/green energy? If they don’t, don’t waste your application fee. But wouldn’t renewable energy be in your old field, industrial engineering, or in chemical engineering? I don’t quite get how that would apply to a mechanical or civil engineering program – but then again, I’m not an engineer.</p>

<p>Next, if you factor in your newest grades, will your GPA rise above 3.0? If so, that’s good. But, as Blah points out, you have to prove that you can do the engineering work, especially since your current employment is not in engineering. Blah’s advice to take courses that prove your newfound focus is excellent.</p>

<p>When you write your SOP, don’t explain the bad grades. Instead, describe how your interests have matured and given rise to your passion. Be specific enough to convey that you know exactly what you’re getting into.</p>

5

<p>Cosmicfish, engineering programs are not gender-blind. I know that for a fact. (My husband teaches at an engineering school.)</p>

6

<p>The two departments with which I am most familiar both indicated that their admit % for women is in line with the application % of women. I took that at the time to mean that they did not give any favoritism towards women, but I suppose that would presuppose that the apps of the female applicants were as strong as those of the male applicants. If not, then they are presumably accepting some weaker apps from the women in order to maintain diversity.</p>

7

<p>Thanks, all. Unfortunately, I knew all of this deep down inside. I am even considering going back for a second bachelor’s degree and then going for the masters. What do you think of this idea? Problem is most schools in CA do not even offer second bachelors. The only program I could find in CA is Cal State Long Beach, which I know nothing about. If I quit my job to go there, would I be takening 10 steps back to get 2 ahead?</p>

<p>I’m also worried about sinking a ton of money into a graduate school program that is not top tier. I’m sure I could get into a tier 4 school, no problem. But is it worthless to have a crappy masters since everyone is getting them these days? Especially in this economy?</p>

<p>As for the online thing, I will double check, but the only online courses that I saw berkeley or ucla offering are through the extension school. I thought these are only geared towards certificate programs. I didn’t see actually see real courses tought online. However, they are offered online though my undergrad college. Would that be a better bet? But I always thought that taking a class in person and getting to know the facualty and the students in the program is best. I would do that if I lived in LA or SF but I live in SD and am short on options. I also thought of trying to relocate to one of the other cities and work temporaroy just so I can try and get my foot in the door. But would I still be wasting my time? Am I scared for life with my GPA?? Please help!</p>

8

<p>Go for the in-person classes. Check out colleges that will let you take undergraduate courses without matriculating in a degree program so you can prove yourself in a year. You aren’t the only one who needs to go back to college to make up for deficiencies. Getting a second bachelor degree is not going to get you ahead. You can tell that by the dearth of such possibilities.</p>

<p>You will NOT be wasting your time if you take a year to work hard in engineering classes, with grades to prove that you’ve become more focused and therefore capable. </p>

<p>As for top tier or nothing, I think you need to revise those standards. People who get into those programs have sky-high GPAs and solid research/project experience. There are plenty of smart people just below that group, with slightly lower GPAs and less research. Their degrees, while perhaps not as prestigious, will still get them employment.</p>

9

<p>You are not scarred for life, but it may take a few extra steps to get where you want.</p>

<p>I would not recommend getting a second bachelors unless you wanted to make a drastic change - art history or such. Changing engineering disciplines should occur at the graduate level, where it is quicker, cheaper, more effective, and more prestigious.</p>

<p>My recommendation would be to look at a certificate or masters program at a good quality school, something you could do part-time or online. It would not necessarily have to be in your specific field of interest - even if it is not a lock for what you want to do in the long run, it can be a stepping stone to the better degree at the better school.</p>

<p>I would also recommend that you make use of employer tuition reimbursement. If your company does not offer that then I suggest trying to find a job that does. Do a part-time masters in some kind of engineering, then go for a full-time masters doing what you want, where you want.</p>

<p>So, for example, you could:</p>

<p>(1) Find (or keep) a job that (a) has tuition reimbursement and (b) will allow you to study at a decent school (say, top-50 or better) either nearby or online.
(2) Do a part-time certificate or masters degree in something engineering. If it is related to “green” engineering, great, but if not just get good grades and cultivate some good LOR’s.
(3) Try and get into some research, at work, at school, or as a volunteer. Not crucial but it really really helps.
(4) Apply in a few years with a record of strong grades at a strong school, perhaps some research, and some good academic LOR’s.</p>

10

<p>I agree with Mom - do not focus so much on “top-tier”. There are more opportunities than you might think, and many require US citizenship - a problem for an increasing number of graduate engineers…</p>

11

<p>@cosmicfish: the programs won’t admit a female engineer with a weaker application, but they may admit her over a male with similar credentials. When it comes to the final cut, most applicants have competitive backgrounds; the department then has to decide which ones fit best with the program and its goals. Women and URMs have a slight advantage only when they qualify for this already elite group.</p>

12

<p>*"Go for the in-person classes. Check out colleges that will let you take undergraduate courses without matriculating in a degree program so you can prove yourself in a year. You aren’t the only one who needs to go back to college to make up for deficiencies. Getting a second bachelor degree is not going to get you ahead. You can tell that by the dearth of such possibilities.</p>

<p>You will NOT be wasting your time if you take a year to work hard in engineering classes, with grades to prove that you’ve become more focused and therefore capable. </p>

<p>As for top tier or nothing, I think you need to revise those standards. People who get into those programs have sky-high GPAs and solid research/project experience. There are plenty of smart people just below that group, with slightly lower GPAs and less research. Their degrees, while perhaps not as prestigious, will still get them employment."*</p>

<hr>

<p>Okay, I only have two schools that are close by: UCSD and San Diego State University (tier 4). UCSD does not appear to have a program that I am interested in. San Diego State does, but this is a tier 4 school. I thought about just diving into the program there and getting my masters as fast as possible, but I am concerned that I will not come out with a reputable degree. So based on this, how do you propose I prove myself in a year?</p>

<p>*"You are not scarred for life, but it may take a few extra steps to get where you want.</p>

<p>I would not recommend getting a second bachelors unless you wanted to make a drastic change - art history or such. Changing engineering disciplines should occur at the graduate level, where it is quicker, cheaper, more effective, and more prestigious.</p>

<p>My recommendation would be to look at a certificate or masters program at a good quality school, something you could do part-time or online. It would not necessarily have to be in your specific field of interest - even if it is not a lock for what you want to do in the long run, it can be a stepping stone to the better degree at the better school.</p>

<p>I would also recommend that you make use of employer tuition reimbursement. If your company does not offer that then I suggest trying to find a job that does. Do a part-time masters in some kind of engineering, then go for a full-time masters doing what you want, where you want.*
*
So, for example, you could:</p>

<p>(1) Find (or keep) a job that (a) has tuition reimbursement and (b) will allow you to study at a decent school (say, top-50 or better) either nearby or online.
(2) Do a part-time certificate or masters degree in something engineering. If it is related to “green” engineering, great, but if not just get good grades and cultivate some good LOR’s.
(3) Try and get into some research, at work, at school, or as a volunteer. Not crucial but it really really helps.
(4) Apply in a few years with a record of strong grades at a strong school, perhaps some research, and some good academic LOR’s."*</p>

<p>1) It’s getting to the point where I can’t stand my job. I just want to quit and go to school full time. As for a good quality school, where do you suggest I get that masters or certificate? Based on discussions today, there does appear to be a good quality school that I can get into in CA that would allow me to accomplish this. And I thought the online thing was not ideal?
2) Does a part-time certificate really carry much load? Most of those are online as well…
3) Agree but again I want to make this transition as soon as possible rather than waste another few years in my current job.
4) What would be the point of getting a masters at a good quality school to turn around and apply for a second masters in the same field a few years later? I don’t understand.</p>

<p>I guess I don’t understand what would be so bad about getting a second bachelors. Another possibility would be to move to ATL and live for free with family memebers while I got a second bachelors at georgia tech. They accept second bachelor degrees there, this would be relativitely inexpensive since I wouldn’t have to pay living expenses, I could really boost my credentials for the top schools, and potentially start this as soon as possible. By doing this I would be proving myself at a good school, eliminating living expenses, earning a second bachelor degree, and able to start right away. I don’t think this will take much longer than a year and half full time since I already have most of the basic engineering course work completed.</p>

13

<p>1) Tuition reimbursement is not crucial, but it would help to control costs. My masters cost my employer ~$25k, I paid nothing. </p>

<p>I am not personally familiar with CA schools, nor do I know how far you are willing to move for this, so I cannot suggest any particular schools.</p>

<p>The online thing is not that good (IMO) but I would take an online degree at a tier 2 school over a conventional degree at a tier 4.</p>

<p>2) My point was that you could get a certificate or masters degree in industrial engineering (still related to green technologies, perhaps) from a tier 2 school, and if you did well you could then use it to jump into a masters in mechanical or civil at a tier 1. Normally I would not recommend a certificate, but here you are just trying to prove yourself academically against a tier 1 standard, and a certificate is quicker than a masters.</p>

<p>3) This was a comment assuming you were not applying this year - if you are going to be waiting at all, try to get in on some research. Applying this year, with a low (for grad school) gpa, no research, no academic references … its a long shot.</p>

<p>4) Do not try to get two masters in the same field - most schools will not allow it. But two masters in related fields (for example, industrial + mechanical or civil) can be very strong, and allows you to progress to better schools each time.</p>

<p>The main reason I am not recommending a second bachelors is that most schools will expect the number of credits per degree to be constant, and not shared between degrees - normally that is in the ballpark of 120 credits! GaTech is a glaring exception, they require only 36 credits, much more attainable, and by itself no longer an obstacle. I would check their residency requirements, however - if you have been gone more than a year I think you are out-of-state!</p>

<p>The other reason is that graduate programs usually care more about the level/caliber of work than the specific field. Taking more undergrad courses will impress them less than a small number of graduate courses done well. Which would you regard more highly, 36 credits of sophomore to senior level classes, or 18 credits of graduate work?</p>

14

<p>I don’t want to waste my time getting a certificate or masters in IE. This would be a waste of time and money IMO. I have no interest in IE. I want to change my career direction.</p>

<p>How about getting into a program via Graduate Nonmatriculated (GNM) status? I know Univeristy of Washington offers this program and I might be able to jump straight into that and then matriculate into their graduate school of engineering. I have family in that area as well and could live inexpensively. Do you know anything about other programs like this? Thoughts?</p>

15

<p>If you have no more interest in IE, you could do a certificate in your field of choice at a decent school, prior to a masters in the same field at a better school.</p>

<p>As to the GNM, that is just UWash’s way of saying “non-degree student” which all schools have - you can do this wherever.</p>

<p>Pros: Admission is vaguely easier, it is a backdoor to the schools grad programs if you do well, when you switch to degree status your credits transfer 100% if you pick them well, and if you leave and go someplace else you have grad-level A’s on your transcript to offset your ugpa.</p>

<p>Cons: Admission is vague so you will need to ask the departments on their standards, there is NO financial aid for non-degree students (perhaps stafford loans if 1/2+ time), college may place limits on # of credits, credits may not transfer if you leave, and if you leave without a degree or certificate you have nothing to show for your labor. Some colleges also have rules about non-degree student switching to degree status, and some offer different courses to the groups that do not crossover. UWash allows you to carry over only 12 GNM credits if you switch and your “time to degree” clock starts with the first course.</p>

<p>If you transfer out, this winds up being the same as if you got the certificate, but without the guidelines or the document. It may work out well if you want to try out civil and mechanical before jumping into a program, however.</p>

16

<p>I’ve been really looking into the online degree option since someone suggested it and think it’s a good idea since I can still keep my income. I was wondering what my chances would be for acceptance into USC. I realize the engineering grad program is rated #7 in the country but I just talked to an advisor and I do qualify for the Limited Status Enrollment option with my GPA being so close to a 3.0. Wondering what your thoughts are on this option. I can basically take 12 credits that will transfer into the masters program if I am accepted. I’m wondering if I get A’s in all 12 credits, meet, if not exceed, the GRE requirements, and get three strong letters of recommendation, will I have a shot of getting in? My dilemma is I don’t want to sink ~$17K into classes that may not transfer into a program. Not sure how competative USC is given it is private and not one of the very “top” programs, especially in CA. Thoughts?</p>

17

<p>I’ve read thru most or this thread. I think your plan is doable, but I would recommend asking USC lots of questions about whether you’d be able to transfer. Also, I’ve taken grad courses while working full time as an engineer. It’s not fun. You’ll have limited access to the professor, TAs, and other students to form study groups. Asking questions will be tough in class because you usually need to do over some sort of phone system that can often not work. You may have to leave work because of a lab course. Also, I’d be so tired sometimes after work, the last thing I wanted to do was study. It may be tough to get a company to pay for your courses in this economy too…you said you’d be willing to pay.</p>

<p>With all this being said, I’ve seen some people at the companies I’ve worked for suceed in getting a Masters degree while working(usually about 30% actually finish), and I even knew a woman who transfered over to the PhD program once she’d found a prof to work with after completing the Masters classes which she took when she was working. You should just go into the situation knowing your in for one hell of a grind. Whoever said life was easy though.</p>

18

<p>Straight from the website:</p>

<p>-Limited student enrollment is not a promise of future admission.
-Not more than twelve units may be taken as a limited graduate student and later applied for credit toward an advanced degree.
-Limited students ARE officially enrolled at the University and pay full tuition.
-Limited students are not eligible for financial aid.
-Grades earned as a limited student will be considered when applying for formal admission.
-Individuals who were previously denied admission to a USC engineering graduate degree program are not eligible take courses as Limited students</p>

19

<p>highhopes, A few questions I thought of regarding this limited enrollment thing you mentioned. In this limited Status enrollment, can you be registered for one class at a time or do you need to be registered for the max credits? Do you pay tuition per class or do you need to pay full tuition even if you are taking one class? Can you do the classes online?
If you can do one class per semester and just pay tuition for that one class, I’d go for it. You’ll know if it is right for you soon enough.</p>

<p>Also, check on this thread on USC</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/735076-usc-rankings-reaction.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/735076-usc-rankings-reaction.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It talks about some interesting things regarding USC. It mentions the recent ranking issue with USC…they are probably not ranked #7 anymore because of a bad “mix-up” in the way they reported their stats. They reported their engineering national academy membership as twice what it should have been. Also this thread above, talks about USC desperate need for tuition and money in general. I think USC is a good school, however its ranking “mix-up” genuinely ticked me off.</p>

20

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>Sorry to have to digress slightly from the original topic but I find myself in a similar situation and would like to just add to this thread.</p>

<p>Basically, like highhopes, i feel somewhat scarred from my undergrad GPA (2.992) from UCSD. However, given that its one of the top engineering schools in the nation (number 11 or 12 according to us news) and that I did my undergraduate in structural engineering (which i want to do my MS in) I feel that it has SOME weight. I’ve been working within the structural engineering industry for a couple of years now and as lucky as i am, I’ve worked for some reputable firms which have very strong ties with the academic community (so the letters of rec should weigh a lot). Lately, i’ve been thinking about going through with some kind of grad school. Ideally an online programs seems appropriate for me as i’d like to keep my income. In looking at some of the programs out there, usc’s den program seems like the best program for me. Because my undergrad studies are already focused on a specific branch of civil engineering, i’ve come to realize that the coursework i’ve taken rivals some of the lower tier MS programs. The problem with some of the online engineering degree’s is that they are very general, but I still feel that i can get something out of USC’s program. </p>

<p>Anyways, what do you guys think of my chances? Do you think the 0.008 difference in GPA will make a difference? I feel that with my work experience, my focus in grad school is pretty clear. I’m thinking about applying in a year this as this year I am preparing for my professional engineering license. However, i don’t want to wait too long to apply because soon enough, it will be almost pointless to go when you can’t get much out of it, just a name. any suggestions/comments greatly appreciated.</p>