Is it stupid to turn down Harvard for Oxford?

yeah, i absolutely love love love my college. I am still a bit worried about academics with Harvard maybe being a bit stronger in biology, but you guys calmed me down about that. So yeah, will probably just follow my gut feeling :slight_smile:

remember Yale copied Oxford and Harvard copied Cambridge:)

Oxford is where you belong.

Come back after Michaelmas term & tell us if you are still concerned that the academics will be ‘less’ at Oxford than they would have been at Harvard :slight_smile:

“Yale copied Oxford
” Do Oxford and Yale still have the same undergraduate academic structures today?

I would never even consider turning down a top American school for Oxford. At the undergraduate level, it’s not the end of the world but do not even think about doing it for grad school :wink:

Don’t get me wrong. I love the history and the tradition. That’s what a summer/semester abroad is for. Oxford just doesn’t have the resources to compete with HYPSM in the sciences (specially at the graduate level). Even most Rhodes scholars come back to the states for their PhDs.

I know that is what makes me worry so much. And I am really sure I want to go to grad school in the US. But do you think I would be at a disadvantage applying from Oxford (compared to applying from Harvard)? Plus is a US bachelor worth loosing a whole year (4years bachelor vs 3 in Europe and literally everywhere else in the world) ?
@JenniferClint

Both are peers. Both are equally strong and will be equally challenging.
The difference is that at Oxford you’ll be focusing solely on natural sciences whereas at Harvard you’ll be able to study a variety of subjects (economics, psychology, CS, etc.) At Oxford, you’ll be on your own whereas at Harvard you’ll have office hours for further questions, writing centers and tutors in case of a problem, etc.

DannyDan, Have trouble getting into American grad schools because you went to Oxford? Ah, I wouldn’t worry about that. Not for a second.

@DannyDan The 2 institutions are completely different. (Congratulations on both offers, by the way.). Most Harvard professors are focused on their graduate students, so many undergrad courses will be graded by teaching assistants, which is typical for American research universities. However, you will have a more structured schedule at Harvard. Oxford tutors (professors) hand pick the students they want to teach. So you will meet with your tutors (usually weekly) and it will be up to you to meet work deadlines you both set up. The Oxford education relies on students being self directed, but with heavy advising and teaching from the professors (tutors) themselves. Many would argue that for an undergraduate education, schools with a focus on undergraduate students is the path to choose, with a research university (and its considerable resources) the path to choose for graduate pursuits.

Finally, if you are uncertain about your major, the American education system is set up for exploratory studies the first 2 years of undergraduate life, with students focusing on a “major” or concentration in a particular subject for years 3 and 4. At Oxford, students start with a “major” or subject concentration (in your case, life sciences), and continue their studies in that subject the entire time they are pursuing their degree.

Others may want to comment to sharpen or correct my impressions stated above.

However, it’s hard to go wrong here if you focus less on “name” and more on “fit.” You know yourself best:)

(FYI, my daughter had an offer from Oxford to read French, but chose Princeton which is undergraduate-focused as she wanted more flexibility in studying different subjects. She’s just declared her concentration in history.)

" I am really sure I want to go to grad school in the US. But do you think I would be at a disadvantage applying from Oxford (compared to applying from Harvard)?"

No. Absolutely not.

You have two outstanding options to choose from, either of which will get you where you want to go as long as you do well there (being a competitive applicant for a PhD in the US). Neither is a bad choice.

(Incidentally where you go for your PhD will end up being based on what you want to research and where the top people in that field are.)

So just pick the one where you think you will enjoy the course and life generally more. Do you want to study other subjects as as well as bio, or not?

I would indeed enjoy studying other subjects too, and I do know that Harvard is better for that. However, I am really sure about my major already and want to specialize early and safe a year to be able to get to postgrad level soon (not lingering around for 1,5 years and “exploring”). So I consider pursuing my other academic interests in extracurriculars or additional seminars during summer brake rather than as a part of my bachelors degree.

If you are planning on applying to grad school you will want to get summer research jobs, not take extra classes, whichever university you choose.

@collegemom3717
Thanks for the advise, I was not aware of this :open_mouth: 
 will my university research and thesis not be enough? It is enough for Oxford grad
As long as you have a first honors degree. They are only extremely strict on academics and GPA, as they were for undergrad. For my undergrad application they didn’t even ask me about my extracurriculars, but e.g. required me to have a perfect score in my Biology and Maths IB exams and a perfect GPA

Wont it be fine if I take up research jobs during one or perhaps two of my holidays? In Oxford there are 3 brakes throughout the year, since they have trimesters


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@DannyDan Your research doesn’t need to be in the summer. University research and thesis will be plenty.

Oxford will know you & your work, and if you are a promising candidate your tutor will often flag the College’s interetst in you for grad work, even as soon as 2nd year. The US schools will know something of your term-time research, but your thesis won’t be done when you are applying (unless you take a gap year). Most students applying to most kinds of grad programs (at least, ime, which is admittedly finite) will have done summer research.

You haven’t specified what level or branch of grad school you are thinking of, so there is variation. For a PhD you typically need at least 2, and often 3 LoR. If it was me, and I was shooting for a top name in my field, I wouldn’t bank on just having in-school research. Strategically, having a summer of research in the US (if that’s where you want to end up) - and therefore a LoR from a different lab / US researcher, to balance the one(s) from your home lab- is worth considering.

I am familiar with the Oxford vacs* , and will just say that:

  1. the amount of research experience you will get during the vacs is necessarily limited - unless it’s at Oxford, which can be a good option.

  2. you may find that you need some time at the beginning of the vac to recover from the intensity of the term, and a bit at the end to prep for Collections.

*pro-tip: they are called ‘vacations’ because you ‘vacate’ the premises- you are meant to use the time to review the material you have just learned; it is not considered a ‘holiday’. If you went over for your interview, you were staying in a Fresher’s room who had ‘vacated’ it for the duration of the vac. There are (limited) storage areas for international students to leave their things between terms, and you can often arrange to rent a room (though not necessarily your usual room) during vacs, though almost never during Michaelmas break of first year.

Good luck with your decision. You can’t go wrong. Can you picture yourself at one school more than the other? My S is currently at Oxford (Masters) and absolutely loves everything about the school, teaching style, professors, etc. He has also traveled extensively during the breaks and is having the best year of his life.

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@collegemom3717 Thank you so much for the insight! This is really helpful, I will consider that :slight_smile:

My course at Oxford also offers the option to do an additional 4th year and graduate with a masters degree. Shall I go for that and apply for PhD then? Or stick with the 3 years bachelors and directly apply for Masters + PhD in the US ?

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You don’t have to decide now about your Master’s 
 :slight_smile:

Well, I will need to tell them whether I am doing the 3 years or 4 years course quite early. But yeah you’re probably right I should start thinking about that once I start my studies .

My son has the 3 year/4 year option for Maths& CompSci and he doesn’t have to decide until the start of his third year.