Is it worth $50K?

Parents Forum
101

<p>Momzie,</p>

<p>You pose some good questions. I do think that Scouts are an affordable "EC" and if one really stuck with it, there are all sorts of opportunities for service, travel, and learning; you could get a lot of mileage out of Scouting. Same with some Church related youth groups that offer a lot of activities for their members. A job is also an EC of sorts.</p>

<pre><code>But yes. It takes money to be competitive, for most folks, to take the lessons and to take the extra summer classes and such.
</code></pre>

102

<p>Okay- so what about your own retirement funds. We keep hearing from our financial adviser that you want to be able to afford to retire and not be a burden to your children financially.
I guess if you have enough socked away for yourselves already - the sacrifice to pay for 50K a year is not too difficult. But what if you are still saving for retirement also?</p>

103

<p>Then, do not retire.</p>

104

<p>Funny- I keep telling my husband that he is never retiring!</p>

105

<p>Momzie,</p>

<p>I agree that ECs don't need to be expensive. I do know that colleges consider them, but I've always considered them secondary to getting the schoolwork done, and done well. </p>

<p>We've paid for a fair amt of ECs for D (only child) and could have afforded to pay for more. But there's a moral/ethical thing here called "stewardship." What message does it send to spend thousands of dollars PLUS driving time (etc.) on, say, water polo? </p>

<p>We've paid for various sports and other ECs - swimming lessons, violin, science camp, but at signs of slackened interest, said, okay, that's it, and cut the funding. </p>

<p>There's a concept in social science that I adhere to: Exploration v. Exploitation. Exploration involves costs. And the longer you explore, the costs can certainly mount up. A good part of kids' involvement in ECs can be treated as exploration, or should be treated as such, since the number of people likely to become, say, competitive professional water polo players is rather small. At some point "exploitation" needs to follow the "exploration" part. "Getting into a good college" or "Getting into HYPS" is not a good reason, in my book, for the exploration part: it should be bigger than that. </p>

<p>Our D. is a HS senior now and the amount of time she spends on her ECs is pretty staggering, even though she has been accepted SCEA at one of her first choice schools. But a large proportion of that EC involvement is now about what she has learned about herself, and giving back to people who helped her, and a good part is also about meeting challenges in things she's not naturally good at.</p>

<p>Here are some lower-cost ECs: Speech and Debate. D. tried to convince us that she should go off to high-cost Debate camps, etc. We said no, it's not worth the money. If you get a scholarship based on your merit, fine. She wanted it badly enough that she did it and I think it was a good experience.</p>

<p>I think that Library volunteering is overlooked as an EC that would interest colleges. Sports matters too, of course, but if the kid really, really wants to do it. Likewise music. </p>

<p>It's important to remember and to remind our kids that colleges are about academics and that HS years could be, should be preparing them for that.</p>

106

<p>I believe in doing what you love. Cost and other considerations are secondary. If you love 5 unrelated activities, go for it, if it is 3, do it. If it is done for different reasons but passion, it is not going to work out. Job is the same. Isn't it a torture to spend 8 hours /day doing what you do not enjoy?</p>

107

<p>Back to the topic "is it worth 50K?" , that all depends. In our case, D will be attending NYU ( $52 K, not good on merit aid), we made the decision that she would be allowed to apply ED and she could go. This was based on a lot of factors which were specific to our family. What bothers me is when people criticize our choice. I am not asking anyone else to pay for it ( and believe me they're not!), so I do not appreciate criticism of our family's decision.</p>

108

<p>My kids didn't want to do sports when they were young. They wanted the weekends for their own pursuits and for stuff we do together. They both tried instruments through school band, and both stopped after two years. (We rented a cello, and one of my kids used his uncle's refurbished trombone.)</p>

<p>They went to day camps while we still needed child care. For a couple of summers, S2 spent a week on the Chesapeake through a very affordable statewide program (it was sleepaway that was cheaper than day camp!). He also attended a local archaeology camp run by the county when he was young, and has put in 250+ hours of volunteer time there during HS. S1 attended a local programming camp (and worked there last summer to make $$ for college). I'll admit we let him attend a six-week residential math program (@$50/day), but it totally changed his life, and that led to lots of scholarship $$. He spent the following summer out in the front yard doing research. Took the subway once or twice a week to touch base with his prof.</p>

<p>S2 wanted to start karate when he turned 13; we talked about his end of the deal (commitment to attend, progress in ranks, etc.) and we agreed to pay. He plays football, but didn't do that until 9th grade. Has never attended a summer football camp. His ECs have been debate (he takes the bus there), Model UN (one-two tournaments/year -- he takes the subway to one and carpooled to the other), drama (set/tech crew) and volunteering.</p>

<p>Both attended very tough programs w/heavy commutes and they (and we) felt that they needed down time.</p>

<p>I've been a SAHM, FT and PT employee. Different stages and life events have led to a series of choices, some of which have affected our ability to save. My DH knows, however, that my ability to get off the career merry-go-round has enabled him to accomplish what he has done in his career. Too much int'l travel, too many late hours and market crises for both of us to be in 24/7 client-driven professions.</p>

109

<p>There is no right answer here. Its a personal decision for each parent as well as student. Certainly monetary considerations, particularly in these tough times, matter. I will say that as a Stanford grad (I thought my year was a tough year to graduate, look at us now!), my diploma has helped me plenty. Its certainly opened doors - some in more obvious ways than others. </p>

<p>That said, school is really what the student makes of it. I think the opportunities at one of the UCs, if I had taken the time and effort to reach out to profs and students, would've been just as rewarding! </p>

<p>So I guess, go where your S or D feels most comfortable - offer them good advice is the best you can do in the meantime!</p>

110

<p>As an accountant, my advice to you is it is crazy to spend $50k a year for college and put yourself in debt (or forego retirement savings to fork over the $50K) unless you have a fully funded retirement.</p>

<p>YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BORROW MONEY FOR YOUR CARE WHEN YOU ARE 80 YEARS OLD AND DIAGNOSED WITH ALZHEIMER'S!</p>

<p>Boy, I cannot stress that enough. </p>

<p>My mom saved her whole life and is now 81 with dementia. Her money is disappearing like water. If you cannot provide for your retirement, including nursing home care (1 out of every 2 seniors over 85 will get Alzheimer's/dementia), then you cannot afford to pay $50K a year for college. Period. I need temporary care for her while I took my S on college tours and it cost me $11K for one month alone. </p>

<p>Plus, as you age, you will lose ability to do simple tasks so you will have to pay for "custodial" care needs like grocery shopping, house cleaning, bathing, meal preparation, etc., unless you can depend upon your kids to stop by each and every day to do this for you. So you need to have money for that as well. In my NYC area, custodial care costs $20 an hour now. Imagine in another twenty years? And don't expect government help either. Medicare doesn't cover this now and with the current economy, it's not setting money aside for this in the future.</p>

<p>Of course, none of this applies if the $50K a year kid will care for you in your golden years and take you in (and yes, my mother lives with me - I do whatever I can to stem the flow of her money to make it last as long as possible for her because she could live another 15 years with her dementia - she's in perfect health otherwise, no diabeties, no cancer, no high blood pressure, no heart problems, etc.).</p>

<p>I highly recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" to read - who the truly rich in the US are. Few of them went to name schools - most went to local and state colleges. And lived below their means. The key to your child's financial success is teaching them about money, not what school they go to. If you saved all your life as you state, then your child is off to a good start regardless of what college he/she attends. Many "successful" people from top-notch schools haven't a dime in the bank - they spend everything they earn trying to live up to expectations and impress others. </p>

<p>So good luck, but unless I was raising a potential Einstein, I wouldn't invest that much money in my kid's college (and if he/she was the next potential Einstein, they'd have a full scholarship anyway!). It's far more important at this stage to be investing in your own future. More so since I'm assuming whatever retirement funds you did have just took a huge hit last year. You now need to work longer and harder to recoup that money and at this stage of our lives, who has the energy? (a glimpse of our futures)!</p>

111

<p>WilPowerMom,</p>

<p>The accountant in all of us thanks you for the reality kick. But truth of the matter is a lot of us don't spend money on our kids because we believe that they have significant actuarial chance of being the next Einstein. Actually, to be even more precise, we need to multiply that percentage by the probability that our Einstein will turn around and take care of us in our golden years as you mentioned.</p>

<p>Each parents invest both time and money differently. As I said before, I honestly believe there is no right answer. I don't own pets but I see pet owners spending obscene amounts of money on their poodle. The accountant in me thinks that is even worse.</p>

<p>But who am I to judge? For lack of a better word, proud parents are almost "irrational" when it comes to children. That was the case with my parents - they loved and spent unconditionally on me. Not that it was fiscally prudent nor was it because they could afford it. My mother was always a home-maker and my father was always a hard-working middle-class engineer. But yet they did it anyways and I am certain they don't regret it.</p>

<p>Invest in the way that makes you happy (there's nothing wrong with having 6 - 12 months of savings in cash for emergencies though). You'll have a lot of time to save and figure out how many Einsteins may show up at your home in a few years.</p>

<p>Cheers!</p>

112

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<p>The choice of how much a family spends to send junior to college is nobody's business but its own...as is the choice of how many kids you have. Unless, of course, you do the equivalent of having 6 kids at home and give birth to 8 more. Then expect some criticism!</p>

113

<p>I haven't read this entire thread, but to the OP: if your kid has the stats to get into Cornell, how about applying to some of the schools that have better FA for middle and upper middle class families?</p>

<p>I'd also look at some programs like Pitt's honors college, where your kid might be in the running for a full ride.</p>