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child with special needs
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What's the operational definition of "special needs"?</p>
<p>Blossom, we don't agree I guess. Or we are focused on entirely different sets of people. I too have no sympathy for the folks (or corporations) that live in a house of cards, make irresponsible decisions, and expect a bail out (though I do feel sorry for their dependents). But what I see are a lot of very hard working people in all kinds of occupations that live ordinary lives, and can't find ways to connect the dots between their finances and the desired education for their child. Indeed, some of the hardest working people I know are in the jobs- or multiple ones!- earning below the median income of 50,000 a year. </p>
<p>Few of us are dealt the same cards. One's menu of life choices is going to vary a lot if one is born into a housing project vs. Newport, raised by a single mom drop out vs. a pair of university professors, or inherited a very average IQ rather than a stellar one. There are exceptions (my life is one of them), but everyone does not have the same opportunities between which to choose. Did you know that 66% of the variance in student test achievement scores is predicted by family wealth? Or that the US scores comparatively poorly in terms of intergenerational income and occupation mobility? </p>
<p>Given the state of higher education in the US today, it now looks like a child could have the cards greatly stacked against them by sheer fact that their parents chose to be oh, I don't know... a firemen, a teacher, or - the horror!- a guidance counsellor! Is that is the way it should be? </p>
<p>A healthy society is one where anyone's child can reasonably expect to afford a useful, good-return-on-investment education if they so want, that students' choices to get an education are not dramatically curtailed by the lot of their parents, and that parents (and their kids) don't have to be punished for choosing to enter one of a million valuable occupations we very much need in our society. Yes, of course, people make choices...maybe even a choice to be an investment banker! But they should have those choices by virtue of affordable quality education in the first place.</p>
<p>Many years ago, after college, I watched all my friends move in different career, relationship, location and lifestyle paths. I thought long and hard about which directions to move in and what to do with my life. I made the best, most thoughtful decisions I could given what I knew at the time and the resources available to me. I began to think of life today as the "lifestyle buffet" after listening to an NPR piece on how to navigate a buffet (don't fill the plate with lettuce was the first piece of advice - I'm not sure what life's equivalent to lettuce is, but . . .). </p>
<p>Anyways, it seems like this college decision is much the same. There are so many choices today and so many different paths of living. Most people try to make the best choices. The junctures in the road that cause the most adjustment also cause the most discussion - working full time vs part time vs staying at home for mothers is one of those junctures; another is support for your child's education.</p>
<p>I continue to be impressed by the responses, experiences, passion, and ideas expressed in this forum. It's really helped me make my decision which I'll never tell because it's not that important - what's important is the decision making process and getting the help from others who are navigating the same water or others who have been there or have researched the decision. Thanks for the continuing discussion.</p>
<p>This was an interesting opinion piece in our local paper from a bankruptcy judge:</p>
<p>January 24, 2009 Rochester Democrat & Chronicle</p>
<p>Be early and agile in coping with college-related debt</p>
<p>Studies clearly show that a college education will increase your lifetime earnings significantly, so most Americans now consider it a necessity, not just an option.</p>
<p>However, because the costs to obtain that degree are increasing exponentially, while the salaries for entry level jobs in many careers have remained relatively flat, and those jobs are increasingly harder to land, many students and their families are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.</p>
<p>In a piece on The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, PBS recently reported that, "since the early '80s, tuition and fees have grown 375 percent, almost three times more than the median family income." At the University of Rochester, tuition alone has gone from $21,485 for the 1998-1999 school year to $36,401 for the 2008-2009 school year. At St. John Fisher College, the tuition for the same period has gone from $13,490 to $22,960.</p>
<p>Although the average college student graduates with a little over $20,000 of student loan debt and $3,000 of credit card debt, we all know, or have heard stories about, recent graduates with significantly more debt, and how that debt is affecting their career and lifestyle choices. Some students end up with a monthly payment that is as much as many people's mortgage payment.</p>
<p>I hope that someday our leaders will find a way to bring college costs in line with salaries (possibly by lowering or subsidizing tuition or creating more forgiveness programs, and improving our macro economy to provide better jobs and salaries). But in the meantime, it is more important than ever for students, parents and school counselors to find ways for students to get the best value for their education dollar and minimize their debt.</p>
<p>The Credit Abuse Resistance Education (CARE) Program, Home</a> - CARE - Credit Abuse Resistance Education Program, has been focused on this issue for a number of years because bankruptcy professionals have seen too many young people filing for bankruptcy. For instance, Christine has $60,000 of student loan debt, which is not dischargeable in bankruptcy, and $50,000 of credit card debt. She is working at a $23,000-a-year job, because, as is so often the case, that big job after college didn't come through. At only 25 years old, she has ruined her credit history and will suffer for that in the future.</p>
<p>CARE has recently posted two important handouts on its Web site: Minimize Student Loan Debt and Don't Borrow Trouble. As college acceptance letters start to come in, I strongly recommend these to all current high school students and their parents, as well as high school counselors, and hope that school districts will consider posting them on their high school Web sites. They can be downloaded for free or CARE will provide anyone who wants them with electronic copies.</p>
<p>These handouts include tips such as:</p>
<p>Be analytical about your career choice, so that: (a) you are aware of what the starting salaries in that career are compared to the debt you may incur to pursue that career; (b) you know whether that career requires that you go to a private school versus a state school; and (c) you can determine whether a 2+2 program (a community college followed by two years at a four-year college) may be adequate preparation for that career.</p>
<p>After every semester in college, not just in your senior year, determine what your total monthly payment for all your loans would be, so you can see whether you will be able to afford it on the salary you are likely to earn.</p>
<p>When you attend college, have a sound overall financial plan and budget that will help you control your expenses and minimize debt.</p>
<p>Avoid using student loan money for unnecessary lifestyle expenses that you may regret 20 years later when you're still paying for them.</p>
<p>Do everything that you can to insure that you graduate from college in four years or less, for example by taking advanced placement courses in high school, and while in college, by staying on top of your schedule and the courses that are being offered each semester, especially if you change majors.</p>
<p>In high school and at college, earn and save as much money as you can at the best after school and summer jobs you can find, including paid internships.</p>
<p>If your family has unlimited funds to pay for your higher education, you don't need to concern yourself with these matters. If they don't, you can't afford not to be proactive about getting the best value for your education dollar and doing everything that you can to minimize your student loan and related debt.</p>
<p>Ninfo is chief U.S. bankruptcy judge, Western District of New York.</p>
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These aren't bad things- but they sure mean that the household budget for "neccesities" looks a lot different than it did when we were all growing up. I think we all played in the backyard during the summer (it was free) if you were lucky enough to have a yard. Now it's considered child abuse if you're not paying for tennis, karate, etc.
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</p>
<p>I agree with this wholeheartedly. And it was just this summer that parents who were friends of mine a lifetime ago were lamenting that their children were bored in a place that consumed my imagination as a kid. My point then was, we have structured our kids' lives so much between soccer, art classes, language immersion, and more that they barely know what to do with the thought of "just" hanging out in their backyard! To hell with social savvy or mere graciousness or to really know true cooperation because you built a fort in the woods instead of going to leadership camp in cambridge.</p>
<p>Add to this that colleges expect our children to have engaged in all of these activities as proof of their passions and/or intelligence. Then multiple this by the multitude of studies that conclude that extracurricular activities improve children's performance academically and (for what it's worth) keep kids "out of trouble" and you have a glimpse of the freight train this country has jumped on. When you factor in that athletes must continue their practice year round to be looked at as competitive beyond the pee wee league and that currently we are also competing with the growing number of international schools that operate like factories of testing and grades, you have a sum of all that has brought us here today.</p>
<p>Yes, there are choices I made in the early 80's when it came to raising my children. And that I chose to stay home has made it nearly impossible to find competitive wages today (and that's assuming there is something out there). I am too old to start at the bottom and too inexperienced to head to the middle, let alone the top. I have raised millions of dollars for non-profits and stayed very much in keeping with my natural talents and my education through many many years of volunteering. However, without the years of w-2's to prove it, my resume is a very thin one.</p>
<p>I am not complaining about my lot in life because frankly, it is a good one. But it is not so easy to suggest that I knew what was in the future because of choices I made over 20 years ago. As the above poster says, paying for a college education was a very different animal in 1979-83. I have said many times over the past five years that new mothers should absolutely find a way to keep their foot in the door so they can walk back through it. This was not a choice when my current senior child was born. There was not '"job share" "executive part time," etc. etc., right down to family leave. There was very little "choice" truth be told.</p>
<p>I will admit that I sometimes twinge when my son says "I don't know what I will do but I know that money wont be my motivating factor." Maybe he will go into public service. Let's face it, Obama didn't exactly choose the path that would have automatically had him rolling in money. But whatever S decides to do, I know he will be a hugely contributing member of society and have been raised in a way that he recognizes not everyone has had the same opportunities he has had but that everyone has to eventually pay their own way. (i.e., do not come back home to have us support you). We have agreed to pay for four years of school. He will have access to money that could help to finance education after that, but that will also be his inheritance. Truth is, it always amazes me at how my children value what I buy for them vs what they spend their own money on! Hopefully, we've passed on our own values of an education and they will make solid decisions when the time comes.</p>
<p>Much like we didn't know in what direction our educational system was going to head 20+ years ago, we really have no idea what our children's future hold either. As I like to say, I do the best I can with what I know today. I am going to make the best decisions I can and I can only hope that I ignore the judgments of my friends and neighbors because their opinion matters little in the grand scheme. We are a rare bird around here for even sending our children to private school! We all make choices and while we have no idea true idea what the repercussions of those choices might be in total, to say they are all equal is fundamentally untrue and to say we knew what we were doing at the time is to completely ignore the reality of a little thing called "life."</p>
<p>Enjoy the ride!</p>
<p>" we have structured our kids' lives so much between soccer, art classes, language immersion, and more that they barely know what to do with the thought of "just" hanging out in their backyard!"</p>
<p>It is interesting that my D commented many times that her involvement with tons of EC's made her much more social then some of her friends who did not have as many chances. She said that she learned to appreciate different people and know how to connect with them, since she had tons of chances to meet with them outside of school. She thanked me for that a lot. I have to admit that D was exceptionally busy, she had 5 concurrent activities when she was 7 which dropped down to 3 all the way thru HS, some of which she is trying to maintain in college.
In regard to my own life, looking back, I made my decisions based on what is the best for me personally and somehow it magically worked out to be the best for my family. I guess, if you are not satisfied with your own life, then family life with suffer. It has worked on all levels, including financial, although it was not obvious at the time the decision was made.</p>
<p>I certainly hope you are not thinking I was suggesting in my post that I was unsatisfied in my life. Nothing could be further from the truth. However, you prove my point exactly. Being able to afford or enjoy all the activities is not in question. It is the inability to simply hang out without the structure of five or seven concurrent activities that amazes me. I am sure your daughter is quite charming and grateful for her every opportunity. By virtue of her permanent carpool (since she had to get there somehow) and the ability to afford it, I am sure she got the most out of her experiences as she could. It is not the ability to do it all that I question, I was just making an observation that our kids don't just hang out. Well, not without computers, cell phones, texts, etc etc. It really does boggle the mind sometimes.</p>
<p>My son interviewed with MIT and was recently accepted there and well as other top schools he applied to. After his interview with MIT, he felt it wasn't a good fit for him. He is accepting a full scholarship to a local state college instead.</p>
<p>"It is interesting that my D commented many times that her involvement with tons of EC's made her much more social then some of her friends who did not have as many chances"</p>
<p>I believe it. And that is the sad part. With everyone else so overprogrammed.....if you aren't in a structured activity too, where else can you find anyone to socialize with? </p>
<p>My kids have been very fortunate, maybe unusually so, to have friends who live very close who they see often in an unstructured drop-in kind of way. One of my teens, who has always walked to the beat of her own drummer, insisted throughout her childhood that nothing could be regularly scheduled on weekends (there went team sports and many other lessons/options). But unstructured time is just a very important necessity to her. Her weekends are to read, sometimes write, spend time with her friends on the front porch, paint, bike ride or hike with her family, babysit or tutor, or come up with new ideas for her latest fund raising effort, invention or recipe. She has a rich and wonderful life and it is very much her own making and I'm glad for her. If you can't have such a life in youth, when would you? </p>
<p>But I do wonder how she'll be viewed by colleges. This is not a lazy, idle or unaccomplished child by any means, her passions are just without the requisite paper trail that comes with belonging to many structured activities over many years.</p>
<p>Well, I also have to add that even though my D. has load herself up with all kinds of EC's at college, when she is on break at home, all she does is hanging out with her friends from HS. We do not see her at home. My H. checked with me if she came home OK after she has been back for few days. All he witnessed was her car in garage early in a morning, he did not see her for few days. They just get together and there is nothing structured about it.</p>
<p>academentia.. My youngest daughter is much like yours although she likes her sports and such as well. Still she is not, nor does she look like she will be, the stand out kind of star of club presidents, captains, etc.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP: I honestly don't know what to say to that. There is absolutely no balance in what you describe.</p>
<p>What I'm confused about is that if you honestly paid for NO extracurriculars for any of your children because you were saving for that elusive Ivy-league expensive private school (no music lessons or musical instrument rentals or purchases; no summer camps; no tutoring in a tough subject; no teams because of the added expense of equipment and uniforms; no travel because it's frivolous), how would your child then get into the expensive private school? </p>
<p>My understanding was that admissions people want to see "passion" and so forth -- but so far, our children's passions have been anything but free. They've involved the purchase of musical instruments, and summer camps and equipment, etc. etc. etc. Is a child honestly supposed to apply to schools and write on his essay "I played in the backyard all summer and never did anything but we SURE SAVED a lot of money. . . " WOuld that honestly impress an admissions committee?</p>
<p>By the way, my parents were BIG savers and we attended lots of expensive private colleges -- but were too embarassed to ever invite any friends home to visit because our house was literally falling down around us. Also, while at college, I mostly felt out of my element since I had never had any of the experiences that the other students had had, didn't dress the same way as them, had never really eaten in a restaurant before, never went to the movies because our parents were always saving money and so forth, certainly couldn't afford a car like many of the other students, didn't have a computer, etc. etc. etc. had never travelled. The thing is, I know that's the only way we'd ever be able to save enough money to send our kids to expensive schools -- but I remember having a fairly miserable childhood and not much fun in college either. Even now, my parent's incredibly uncomfortable house makes it difficult to visit them with the kids -- rundown plumbing, very little heat and so forth. Saving shouldn't be the only point of your existence. There needs to be a bit of balance.</p>
<p>I have friends who have parents in their mid 80s who have run out of money. Their kids are scrambling to help them sell their small condo (in a down market) and find a cheap apartment. They will be leaving a community they've lived in for 25 years and many friends. It's really very sad...for everyone.
So parents, before you sign on for huge debt or drain your retirement accounts - please think it about it. You're probably not doing your children any favors....</p>
<p>Momzie.. I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel that my children have a better life than I do! It costs an arm and a leg to raise children today. And yes, it does seem required sometimes. Unfair for sure (as if only those who can afford these things are capable of achieving?). It's definitely a damned if you do (cuz you end up half broke) and Damned if you don't (your kid limits their college choices - and merit money - a great deal).</p>
<p>Jasper, you said:</p>
<p>My son interviewed with MIT and was recently accepted there and well as other top schools he applied to. After his interview with MIT, he felt it wasn't a good fit for him. He is accepting a full scholarship to a local state college instead.</p>
<hr>
<p>I am curious to know what it was he decided against at his top schools? (besides the fact that they are expensive)</p>
<p>Starbright,
I really appreciated your post on researching the colleges at the departmental level, as well as all the rest of the things more commonly looked at. My d1 is planning on majoring in anthropology and I am so glad it occured to me to ALSO look at the department websites when trying to figure out where to apply to. Doing so took some very good PA LACs off the list (we live in PA). And one of our small state schools has a really good anthro dept--who would have thought?? And no grad program--even better. </p>
<p>My d2--HS soph--wants to major in Zoology. After what we learned from this college application process for d1, I have already scoped out things for d2 to do during HS that will further that dream, i.e., taking classes at the Zoo, volunteering at the Zoo, getting a summer job at the Zoo. </p>
<p>Starbright, would you consider PM'ing me regarding the best undergrad Zoology programs? I know that there are some schools that have actual undergrad majors in zoology. I wonder if they are worth it? D2 wants to go to an urban school--and really is after diversity and a liberal leaning campus. Oberlin would be nice if it wasn't in the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>Momzie-I agree wholeheartedly with your post. There has to be a balance.</p>
<p>My kids have always done a few activities growing up but were never overloaded. With their activities and school work, they have always had time to just hang out in the neighborhood with the neighborhood kids. It was important to me to make sure they had that, and this was more important to me than building an elite school-worthy resume. Even now in high school, they do have to work harder, but they still have time for fun. You're only a kid once.</p>
<p>We decided that it is not worth for our D (graduated at the top of her HS class) to apply to top colleges. One side is overlooked here, is their future major. For pre-meds and some other majors, it might not be the best to go to top and pay top $$ in UG. However, if somebody has unlimited resources, why not? D choose to go to state college on Merit $$ with guaranteed acceptence to Med. school. Both conditions were important to her and us. It will save us tons of $$ for her Grad. school if it is still in her plans (hopefully). We promised to help her financially.</p>
<p>Thanks so much dsc6. I spend way too much time on here, so it's nice if it's actually useful besides just being fun :) (though hey, maybe I can rationalize that it is a part of my job....I'm supposed to serve the public on academic matters...). </p>
<p>As for zoology, I so wish I could help but I actually just pulled that out of a hat, as an example. You would know more about zoology than I. Maybe I can point you to some resources though.</p>
<p>On anthro, I was just perusing med school acceptance rates, and did you know that anthro majors have the highest accept rate? That is, 56% of anthro majors get into med school. Quite a lot higher than bio or life sciences. </p>
<p>Re: small state school without a grad programs. The plus is faculty (rather than grad students) will be the ones in the classroom and labs. And your child won't be competing with grad students for research and faculty attention. And of course the cost savings could be fabulous. And it might be a wonderful department to be a student in (that is so cool you found it). But keep in mind a potential downside. A small State school without grad students is not going to be a magnet for researchers (researchers care hugely about great grad students), and it's harder for researchers to publish without grad students. What this means is it's much less likely the faculty there will be recognized in their respective field (which is about publications and impact in terms of research). In one's ideal world, if one wants to go to grad school, it helps so much to not only have experience doing research, but also to work with people that are known and central players in the field and can write great recs and provide good guidance for the next step (especially so if the school itself isn't well known). Of course, if its a professional program later like med school or law school, it won't matter. There are exceptions to any rule I can think of.</p>