<p>In world where everything revolves around “brand” and “image” of course it makes sense to pay extra!!! Take it from a current college student, merit only gets you so far nowadays. Having an Ivy on your resume will go a long way, especially if you have a half-decent GPA. And now I officially close this thread because debating this topic any further is a waste of everyone’s time. You can tell me the story of that one kid you knew who graduated from a state school and now he’s at Blackstone. To that I will say, he was 1 in a million. Good day.</p>
<p>PS. Ivys have crazy OCR and alumni networks, something to consider.</p>
<p>That depends on a person. I know a Cornell grad who is now in a Phd program at the university ranked deep in the third hundred. Looks lile that Ivy on her resume did not do THAT much I also know another one, who after obtaining a degree at Harvard attended schools less and less prestigious for his masters and Phd programs.
It really depends…</p>
<p>Your making it seem as though I said having Harvard on your resume will do all the work for you. Of course not. It will be an enormous help but, ultimately it depends on the person. Harvard can open the doors for you however, what you decide to do with those opportunities, well, that’s your problem.</p>
<p>nyknicks, why would anyone “take it” from you rather than years of published research or our own experience in the working world? Also, deciding that you are “closing this thread” because further discussion is a “waste of time” is incredibly presumptuous and not becoming of someone presumably interested in intellectual discourse.</p>
<p>It depends on the college. Exclusive and high-priced LACs may have name/brand appeal, but I personally believe (in my own biased opinion) that a STEM education at the likes of MIT or Caltech is worth the extra cost because of more than just the name. At either school, the academics are amazing and much more rigorous than at most Ivies (if not all), the research opportunities are huge and significant, and the “engineering mindset” of problem-solving, teamwork, and hard, hard, hard work can be very beneficial to a high-achieving student.</p>
<p>A truly great student will excel, develop, and grow anywhere, but I do think that in certain situations (STEM, or anotherspecific field), a top-level school can be worth the added cost.</p>
<p>@nyknicks13 …and you deserve those offers because you’re an Ivy League student? Yikes. Hopefully the Cornell name will balance out your smug, entitled attitude in job interviews.</p>
<p>Perhaps we have a better grasp on the job market because we’re the ones choosing whether or not to hire you?</p>
<p>State schools have MUCH larger alumni networks than Ivy’s. And frankly there are far, far, far more businesses out there than there are Ivy grads. Even if EVERY graduate of an Ivy gets their perfered job, there are many, many, many more jobs available out there for grads of other schools.</p>
<p>But I challenge an average to below average student with no work experience and no notable skills with an Ivy degree to try to pull some strings and get an alumnus to give them a helping hand. My EDUCATED guess is that they’re going to wind up not getting many returned phone calls or email messages. Sure that alumni network helps the top students that have professors and administration talking them up to the alumni, but for the average student, those alums don’t want to be bothered.</p>
<p>Quick question: before I go all “rah rah MIT” and support the MIT side of this, are we differentiating at all between the Ivy League and other top-tier schools, or is it more of a general discussion of expensive elite vs. merit aid at other schools?</p>
<p>Because while I agree with a lot of what jrcsmom said, I do think that MIT, Caltech, etc. are different from Ivies in these respects. Then again, those schools are self-selecting; an MIT degree doesn’t get you job offers – being smart, driven, and passionate gets you job offers. It also gets you into MIT. So naturally, an MIT student has a good shot at many jobs, for reasons other than (but also including) the MIT name.</p>
<p>edit: Sally, just saw your post. LOL. Jeez…sounds like someone who’s looking to blame their lack of success on their lack of Ivy status. ;)</p>
<p>Agreed - a student from MIT, Caltech, or an Ivy that is smart, driven, and passionate is going to have a good shot at many jobs </p>
<p>And MIT says that they strive to select students that are going to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them, but if there is a student that gets admitted to MIT or similar that chooses not to get involved in campus life, that chooses not to get involved in research opportunities, that chooses not to gain any work experience, that gets through their classes, but with a less than lackluster performance, then the name on their degree isn’t going to help them. </p>
<p>Even at MIT, I am guessing that although such students are few and far between that they do exist.</p>
<p>We can only speak from our own experiences, which by definition will be limited and regional. However the job market is really, really tough judging by my kids and their friends, who are elite school attendees and recent graduates with good grades and appropriate professional internships/entry level jobs on their resume. It’s not like even these kids–some of whom have already accomplished so much as far as research, patents, publications–are getting jobs thrown at them. They are submitting hundreds of resumes, but only getting a handful of interviews and maybe, only maybe, one offer. Many end up giving up on the search and decide to go on to grad school for lack of a better plan. And these are the top school grads. The state school grads we know who have gotten jobs are few and far between also. And the ones with jobs are working for temp. agencies and Starbucks.</p>
<p>The job market is tough for pretty much everyone. There are a lot of highly qualified folks WITH experience that are also competing for jobs with some entry-level folks. It helps to have rave references, good grades, experience, people skills AND some luck. We are glad our S got a job and know some others in his field who DID get jobs while others didn’t. Don’t know the folks well enough to have deep insights about how people were chosen or not.</p>
<p>Some of the kids who went to local state U got jobs in their fields while many others are still looking as well. The job market right now is VERY tough on most folks.</p>
<p>Oh, I don’t think they’re few and far between at all. But I do think that this discussion is geared towards kids who will take advantage of their opportunities, and the great and numerous opportunities that MIT offers make it, in my mind, worth the cost most times.</p>
Here’s my matching anecdote. We hired around 30 in the past two years. They report that their classmates are doing fine. Around 60K starting here. These are engineers.</p>
<p>My nephew who graduated state school has a decent job. His major is about as far from engineering as you can get.</p>
<p>The argument is not whether the job market is tough. It’s tough but getting better. The argument is that you have to go to Princeton to get a job.</p>
<p>But let’s assume that there are around 2,000,000 people graduating college each year. I’ll accept those ridiculous studies that say 50% are unemployed or underemployed. Frankly, I think that’s nonsense, because underemployed really only means you are working at a job that didn’t used to require a degree. It’s still a job and maybe your degree helped you get your foot in the door. But I’ll accept it.</p>
<p>Now let’s assume that NONE of those unemployed or underemployed went to an Ivy League school. That’s 1,000,000 kids with good jobs. How many annual graduates from the Ivy League or equivalent schools? 20K? 50K? That leaves plenty of room for kids with decent grades, reasonable majors, some experience, from decent non-“elite” schools. Probably pretty much all the kids at the level to post on here.</p>
<p>I work at a state flagship, and not a highly ranked one…the business school places 93% of the grads within 3 months of graduation, almost all in their field. Same with engineering. Liberal Arts grads face a tougher job market, but our data still shows that around 90% are employed within 6 months of graduation. A higher % are ‘underemployed’ but the majority are employed in the field of their choice. I know hundreds of state school grads that have received great job offers within the past year, both business majors and liberal arts majors. Overall, the job market is pretty decent (obviously, it could be better) for many of our grads.</p>
<p>The other big state school in our state shows similar data and it is even better for their ag majors. 100% placement with good paying jobs. The graduate around 1,200 ag majors of various types every year.</p>
<p>Northwestern, in 2011, reported that 25-30% of their grads were still unemployed, ‘volunteering’, or working part-time shortly after graduation. </p>
<p>In terms of pure job prospects, I would rather be a business major (or ag business major) with mediocre grades and experiences from a state flagship than an anthropology major with mediocre grades and experiences from a school like Northwetsern.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, I think elite schools seem wonderful. They offer a lot of aid to some people and I would certainly choose one if financially feasible. It’s just that some posts on here really come across as overly dire about the lack of opportunities if you don’t happen to attend one. I don’t think that’s true. Regardless of whether I think one school is better or not, I just don’t think those doom and gloom posts are true. They defy logic IMO. And they certainly don’t match my personal experience here in SoCal.</p>
<p>Obviously my experience is not universal and it may be different in other geographical areas.</p>
<p>The message about the Law School scam, charging obscene tuition for legal educations where there are no legal jobs, will sooner or later filter down to the undergraduate level. What I find amusing is that the cost of the elite undergraduate educations cost as much as the elite law school educations. And yet those undergrads are no more successful than smart undergrads from non-elite schools. But I do have to hand it to these elite undergraduate schools. They have convinced the sheepsle that they are worth every ridiculous penny they charge for what amounts to no more than an undergraduate education. And the Sheepsle are willing to pay it. If you get a full ride . . guaranteed for four years . . Go elite. If you can easily afford an “elite” education, then by all means, go for it. If you are like most of us, middle to upper middle class, and your kids get into these elite schools with little to no merit aid relative to your out of pocket costs . . . YOU ARE CRAZY to pay for it on the misapprehension that it is going to make a difference in your child’s career. It almost always won’t. But you do get to brag about your brilliant children. I guess that’s worth something.</p>
I also know another one, who after obtaining a degree at Harvard attended schools less and less prestigious for his masters and Phd programs.