Hi guys, Is it worth it working so hard in a competitive high school and hardly get all As while you might not have time for sports, arts and other things Ivy colleges want? I am hesitating if or not I am going to a really competitive school in my state, similar to Andover, you get approximately 20-30 hours of homework per week, if I am going to an easier school, I might just work 10 hours per week and get all A plus. And the easier school is not bad, it has many AP and honors classes though it is not as famous as the “competitive school” i am going to. Does it make sense to go to a hard school if you want to go to Harvard?
Odds are against everyone for Harvard. My suggestion would be to pick the high school that will give you the high school experience you want.
If you have to spend 20-30 hours on homework, that high school is probably not for you. Not everyone needs to spend that much time.
Harvard offers a $250,000 bachelors degree. You can do better.
This is a great question, IMO, and one that should be revisited every app cycle.
But not for the reasons the OP might think.
Because I think it is less about a yes/no answer to your question and more about what the point of a high school education is. Or education in general.
I have always been of the opinion that you should not look at any high school experience through the lens of “will this help me get into Harvard”. I think kids who get into Harvard, by and large would have gotten into Harvard (insert the selective “dream” school of your choice here) REGARDLESS of where they go to high school. A quick Google tells me that only 26% of Harvard’s class of 2019 went to a non-denominational private school (the schools mentioned most often on this site), with an additional 10% going to a parochial high school. 63% went to public school…and I’m guessing not all of them went to TJ, Bronx Science, Stuyvesant, or NCSSM.
Additionally, even if you check all the boxes off…high scores, great GPA, strong class schedule, excellent ECs, etc. that doesn’t guarantee you’ll get in to Harvard, regardless of where you go to HS. Not everyone who graduates from Andover goes to Harvard. Or any Ivy for that matter.
I tend to look at HS much differently…I’d rather my kids come out of HS with their love of learning/sense of curiosity intact. Some practiced time-management and organizational skills. An open mind. A kind heart. And a sensible head on their shoulders going into college (meaning, among other things, being able to resist the many temptations and vices that exist in college).
To answer your question more directly, I think any selective college admissions team will be able to tell if you skated through high school. Not every A is created equally. I vote for challenging yourself, regardless of the the outcome.
Being relatively new to CC, please pardon my naivety, but I do not get the obsession with the Ivies. Is there any research showing a positive correlation between an Ivy education and happiness? And isn’t the latter the real goal (or more accurately, the journey) in life?
IMHO, the long- and short-term questions in life can be answered by what will make you happy (or where will you be happy), what/where will challenge you and make you your personal best, AND how answering the first two will ultimately make you a better citizen of your community. Choose the path that challenges you and allows you to find your passion(s). Throw your name in the Ivies hat(s) along the way, but don’t make choices because of what you think they want. The fact is, when all the hooks and legacy spots are filled, they just want people who are passionate about something…and you don’t know if your passions will line up with what they are looking for at the time of application. But it will definitely line up somewhere, if you’ve thoroughly and honestly searched for the best fit. I’ve found that many people who simply challenge themselves and pursue their passions are those that end up at the Ivies (at least for the more important graduate/professional training) with little effort or emotional investment in going there.
@altas No correlation between Ivy and happiness-but an extreme correlation between school and business successs which translates into options to do what you want and the likelihood of making more money than most for a little fetime( hence the high #s of applications.
@Andoverguy If you are doing that much work, you are not a likely candidate for Harvard. Most students are naturally brilliant and work hard but not that hard. If you cannot balance super high levels of academics can togwther with sports and arts ( like at a top prep school) you won’t be able to take advantage of the opportunities provided at an Ivy.
And as someone noted, Ivy students do not all come from prep school ( at all). Most were the best from their place of origin and had insatiable curiosity for learning. Unless it’s changed completely most could balance many things at once and do well in all. That’s why so many get disappointed in Ivy rejections. They think it’s a stats game and it isn’t.
@Happytimes2001 Can you share the data showing extreme correlation between school and business success? Most Fortune 500 CEOs did not attend Ivies… I attended an Ivy but many of my most successful friends attended state schools and less prestigious LACs.
@calimex There was a great article about a year and a half ago that mapped Ivies to income and high level (C level) business success. I think it was the Wall Street Journal. i know I printed it out but doubt I can find in my messy office. I will try to find it online. One of the premises was a large kick directly out of school and pretty strong income levels which they said were based on connections.
So I think I found it online though it’s behind the WSJ firewall. It you google “the colleges where students do best financially” you may find it. There is also a synopsis of 2018. Schools are #1-10 Harvard, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Yale, Cal Tech, U Penn, Princeton, and Cornell. There are also some really good stats about outcomes, resources etc. If the article is the one I read some time ago, it also cites how students use the network to expand into opportunities that would not be available to others. I’m a data person so I like to go with pure data (income) rather than anecdotes but all could be relevant.
I recommend doing things you want to do and do them well, no matter academic or non-academic. Our college admission system is so skewed, there are no guarantees so use your 4 years wisely, you’ll not get a do over of your youth so don’t base it on what colleges want.
Here’s another WSJ article (also published in other sources at the time or the survey release) to consider…Google “Elite Colleges Don’t Buy Happiness for Graduates.” BTW, I’m not trashing the Ivies (I personally studied and trained at state schools and Ivies)…I just hate to see young people chasing Ivies instead of chasing passions.
“Don’t ask kids what they want to be when they grow up.
Ask them what problems they want to solve.
This changes the conversation from who do I want to work for
to what do I need to learn in order to be able to do that.”
- Jamie Casap
To truly be successful, find the school that offers “that” instead of the one everyone thinks “is all that”.
20 hours of homework per week is not out of line for those taking multiple AP/IB/Honors classes in a private or public HS. Needing to put in that time does NOT mean the OP is not a candidate for an Ivy. However, I do agree that getting into an Ivy is not about doing all the “right” things on some sort of checklist. Choose the school that challenges you and pursue your interests whether those be academics, research, a PT job, athletics, volunteer work, etc. Happiness is more likely found from pursuing your definition of success. That may or may not include an Ivy or the typical path that would follow.
@098123Student That’s an awesome quote. And meaningful too. If candidates could answer the question what are your passions and what do you hope to do with those passions in your career they are likely to do well. Chasing after a name isn’t going to get you what you want. But if you find the fit between the problems you want to solve and the background to get you there-now that’s powerful. In addition, I’d add if a kid wants to solve a really difficult problem it becomes even more interesting esp if they need two fields of study to solve it.
Comparing Apples to Oranges is not fair to either fruit. The competitive schools grad won’t need as high of a GPA or standardized test, as a student at the less competitive school. Choose the school that has the students you most want to study with/admire. Schools are nothing without the students. Yes you will get better grades at a “lower” ranked school, but who are your peers? Are the school offerings/extracurriculars your cup of tea? Who will drive you? Who will be there 20/40 years from now? Do yourself a favor. Look at the semi-annual magazine of each school, turn to the back (where they show what the graduates are doing). Is that “you” or are these people you want to have as friends? If not. Save yourself the headache. Also look at each school’s profile. Look at the middle 50% scores. Then look at the most popular non-Ivy/NESCAC type schools. Does this look like you/what you want to be? School choice is NOT about scores, it’s about relationships.