<p>I don't know if this has been asked before, but if it has please forgive me. My son would like to go to a top 20 school right out of high school (heart set on Harvard of course). He is currently a sophomore and is currently taken 2 AP and 2 or 3 honors classes (sorry I can't remember) he is also trying to do all the extra curricular activities also. He is currently ranked #1 in his class of about 180. He gets out of school, practices a sport for about 3 hours, gets home about 5:30 starts studying at 6 and goes to about 10:30. He says that he can maintain his A average without any problems, it's just that the teachers assign so much work that I am beginning to wonder if it is worth it. I am wondering if I should convince him to take a lighter load in high school, go to CC for a few years and then a top state school (ranked between 20 & 30 in the country). Part of me says, you only live once and go for the top schools, part of me says, take it easy and go for the top state school after CC.
I know people will say let him do what he wants, I guess I just worry because I have never seen him having to work so much and I worry about burnout. Just asking.</p>
<p>“Is all the work in high school worth it?”</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Do you think your son would be happy performing at a more laid-back level? He might not. I understand your concern. Our older son is a senior in an IB program, very active in extra-curriculars and currently ranked first in his class. He has so little down time, and drives himself mercilessly, but it’s what he wants. I think with some kids, it’s their personality type. We let our son know that we’re fine if he gives some of it up, but he thinks he can handle it.</p>
<p>If he really is at the top of his class, then he may be advanced enough that he may hit a ceiling at CC (advanced students may want to take upper division courses in frosh or soph year, but those are not available at CCs), so starting at CC may be a less optimal choice for him, although it is not necessarily a bad option.</p>
<p>However, there are plenty of four year schools besides super-selective ones like Harvard (where he would have a low chance of admission unless he makes top end academics plus top end extracurriculars or awards – probably state or national level recognition) where he could go directly and be able to move on to upper division courses in frosh or soph year if he chooses. Large merit scholarships are also more available to frosh applicants than transfer applicants; see <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-19.html#post16145676[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-19.html#post16145676</a> and <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918</a> .</p>
<p>That’s an incredibly loaded question!!! But as someone who has recently experienced the trials and tribulations of college admissions and now adjusting to college life and dealing with the realities of realities of my situation, I can say that not doing the all the work in high school was absolutely not worth it!!!</p>
<p>Also, how good is he at the sport? If he is not at a high enough level to be a recruitable athlete, or recognized at more than the local level, then the time spent on the sport may be what can relatively easily be cut back on if he later feels that he is overloaded.</p>
<p>There is something in between what your son is doing now and attending a CC. My kid did NOT graduate at the top of her class (3.7 GPA, probably around 20%tile in her class). No hook, but she had the best college admissions results in her grade. U of Chicago, Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, and some very nice merit scholarships from a handful of other schools. Colleges don’t just award the ‘grinders’, I think they also reward the true intellectuals who are deeply interested in learning (not just getting the “A”) and kids who follow their own paths & interests in ECs.</p>
<p>However – this is a decision your son has to make for himself. One thing you might do is get a copy of Cal Newport’s book “How to Be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get Into College By Standing Out (Without Burning Out)”. Have your son read it so he can see that he has other choices besides the “most perfect student” path to get into a very good college.</p>
<p>Also… now is a good time to start considering the finances of colleges. Sure, if he gets into one of the top 4-5 colleges in the country, your bill will likely be pretty reasonable. But if you are fairly high income, those next 15 colleges on the list will cost you a lot. If your son has grad school ambitions, esp. in a field where grad school is costly, you might offer him a financial incentive to go with your top state U for four years and give him a hand with the grad school expenses as well if you can. Or shoot for a school a bit lower in the rankings with good merit aid.</p>
<p>I think it is a disservice to try to discourage a high performing student from going to a great 4 year college. Kids who want to go to top colleges want and need to take those extremely challenging courses and work very hard. His schedule is very typical, not exceptional. </p>
<p>He should go to a CC just to make you feel better that he won’t have to work hard? When he won’t be working with his peers, having a residential college experience, and starting to form relationships with professors and mentors who might take him into their research labs and write his grad school letters of recommendation? Why should he not start at his good State school right away?</p>
<p>I hate to see him picking a school at this stage. It is very likely he knows little about what qualities would suit him best in an undergrad college. He needs to think in terms of a range of schools. He would do well to learn about schools outside the top 20 because those aren’t the only schools that are great. Buy him a Fiske Guide so he can learn about qualities and character of different schools. There are about 350 great schools in there. Encourage developing list of colleges that fall into reach, match and safety categories.</p>
<p>You haven’t talked about finances, so you might spend some time yourself running numbers, so you can communicate to him what his options are, realistically.</p>
<p>Everyone is different. My DD is extremely competitive and is a member of a small handful of kids in her class who are in a relatively friendly competition to see who comes out on top, who gets into which colleges, etc. She loves it and wouldn’t have it any other way. If you’ve got a kid like that, I wouldn’t worry about it. If it’s worth it to him, let him do his thing. On the other hand, if he’s stressed out, not getting enough sleep, mentally and physically breaking down, eating poorly, depressed, etc., then you need to intervene.</p>
<p>
It doesn’t have to be a choice between spending nearly every waking moment working towards getting accepted to Harvard or instead going to a community college. Your child could take a lighter load that gives more free time (lighter yet challenging), while still being able to attend excellent 4-year colleges, including ones that might be a better fit than Harvard. However, ultimately I think it should be your child’s decision.</p>
<p>Also note that many highly selective colleges are not looking for students who spend almost all of their free time studying to get a near-perfect GPA and have a primary passion of getting into an elite college. They might instead favor students who get lower grades from time-to-time, but have a true passion outside of the classroom where they do amazing things… students who will likely continue to do amazing things outside of the classroom in college and beyond. If you check out the decision threads on this forum, this pattern is often apparent. For example, I analyzed the Stanford decision thread earlier. Almost all persons posting in the thread had good stats with a high GPA, near top of their class, excellent test scores, … (CC posters are a unique subgroup that tend to have great stats). The accepted posters were not the ones who had the pinnacle of top stats among this high stat group. Instead the accepted posters had a lower median GPA, class rank, scores, and course rigor than the rejected posters. However, the accepted posters were notably stronger in non-stat areas outside of the classroom. </p>
<p>Back when I was in HS, I rarely studied unless I found the class material interesting. I received roughly an equal number of Bs and As in my HS classes and was only in the top ~15% of my class. Nevertheless, I was 1 of only 2 persons in my HS class who were accepted to HYPSM schools, including one college that had never had an acceptance from my HS before. It’s not all about keeping up a top GPA/rank.</p>
<p>Wow. This thread is sure an antidote to all the “I’m upset that my kid isn’t motivated” complaints. I wish OP would explain why he believes a CC makes any sense, because I don’t see the rationale and think that for a student of his son’s caliber it would be a terrible idea. I agree that if the boy is thriving and happy with this workload and schedule, let him alone.</p>
<p>Editing to add: Looking back at OP’s posting history, I see he’s a high school teacher at an elite high school who at one point was advocating for very early SAT prep and challenging school work. Now it’s no longer worth the trouble. Odd.</p>
<p>Who’s complaining about the workload - you or your son?</p>
<p>Sounds like he’s doing fine, and the only one with a problem is you. Leave him alone. If he’s really determined to be an “A” student, despite your best efforts to convince him otherwise, you’re just going to have to live with it.</p>
<p>Or, here’s an even better idea . . . why don’t you ask him how you can HELP?</p>
<p>Harvard or CC? Your post doesn’t make sense to me. But here is an answer anyway. If you son wants to be a captain of industry, Supreme Court lawyer, etc. AND his SAT, ACT, etc. scores are in the top percentiles AND you already know he is Harvard material AND you can afford Harvard, then choose Harvard. Otherwise, any four-year college will do.</p>
<p>It is difficult to see this with an objective eye when your oldest is in the middle of high school, much easier when looking back.</p>
<p>One of my three kids was pretty close to #1. He did so with ease, and joy while being highly ranked (in the state, not nationally) in a sport and a musical instrument. However, in order to have been ranked #1, he would have had to give up band as a high school class because it did not award the highest honor points. It was considered an “honors” class, but not an AP or GT level class. Unweighted 4.0 every quarter all four years of high school, but not possible to be ranked #1 because of that class. He, I’m sure, did better in college admissions having taken classes he loved and not caring so much about class rank. Certainly he was a much happier, well rounded child. </p>
<p>Don’t worry so much. A few years from now absolutely nobody will care or remember whether or not your kid was ranked #1 in his class. I’m pretty sure no college admissions committee is glancing at an application and saying, “Hmmm, this kid was only ranked #8 in his class? look at this… He took an art class instead of another AP science? What a loser. Put him in the reject pile.”</p>
<p>" He gets out of school, practices a sport for about 3 hours, gets home about 5:30 starts studying at 6 and goes to about 10:30. "</p>
<p>IMO 10:30 pm isn’t late especially for a high school student. DS who was in marching band and other EC’s didn’t get home until a lot of days until 9- 10:00 pm and then had to study. It was not uncommon for him to study until 2:00 am or later and then get up and go to school. Was it worth it? Yes. He is just started college and is happy to be there. Did I question the whether it was worth it for him to take those AP’s and stay up so late studying? Yes. Did I try and convince him to cut back on band and the other EC’s . Yes. did he listen. NO, he said he was able to handle it. Since your son is getting good grades and he’s not staying up that late. I’d let him decide.</p>
<p>
If anything, I suspect they will look at that art class and consider it a breath of fresh air. While schools want top students, they also want “human beings,” people who are more than one thing. The student who takes more AP science classes at the exclusion of the arts or other activities is one-dimensional, and not what they want. That student will attend college to get as much OUT of college as possible, but what will he contribute to the community. </p>
<p>OP, unless your son is struggling, let him be. He may be one of those kids that simply rises to whatever is offered. While you think he would be happier if he cuts back, that’s not always the case - he may not be able to enjoy everything else if he knows he’s not trying his hardest at school. Work hard/play hard!</p>
<p>No doubt, it is a grind, in part because some of the work of high school is busy work that the more intellectual kid might find amusing but not challenging, though time consuming. </p>
<p>Have the student find his/her own path. You see, no doubt, the level of stress. Try to keep it LEVEL not crazed, reasonable, not exhaustive.</p>
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<p>But didn’t you also have all A grades in numerous courses taken at local colleges and universities while still in high school? HYPSM and other colleges might overlook a weaker high school record in favor of a strong record in college courses taken while in high school.</p>
<p>Just make sure he isn’t doing it for you. Let him know you’re confident he will succeed in life, that there are many paths to success, and that you want him to enjoy the journey.</p>
<p>
I wish I had usually made it to bed by 10:30! It was more like midnight; 2 am was not uncommon if I had a project due the next day. </p>
<p>Don’t push him or make him feel like a loser if he brings home an A- or heaven forbid, slips to #2 or #3 in the class, but allow himself to work as hard as he wants to work. Teenagers have a lot of energy; school work and sports is about the most productive use of it that he’ll get (unless he lives on a working farm).</p>