My daughter is a junior in high school. She thinks she wants to major in enigineering of some sort, maybe biomedical engineering or premed. We live in Missouri, but she wants to go out of state. We visited the University of Wisconsin in Madison this past week and she really liked it. We also visited Loyola in Chicago. She thought she liked it as well. I read that the tuition at Wisconsin is going to be going up $3000 a year for the next two years & then $2000 a year the next two years after that. If that’s the case, Loyola won’t cost that much more and thinking my daughter would probably be eligible for more scholarships there. Any thoughts? Is Wisconsin worth the cost then?
Depends on how much paying for it will pain you! As long as the department has accreditation, the programs of study will be similar.
Has she visited Rolla? It is very good for engineering.
I will also plug Smith College https://www.smith.edu/engin/
I loved the University of Wisconsin-Madison! I got accepted there this past week and was very excited. However, it will cost $45,580 per year to attend school there as an out of state student. That is a bit extreme, especially if she is looking at going to med school; she doesn’t want to be in debt $150,000 for undergrad and then at least that amount for med school. (I’m trying to choose a school right now, and these are the thoughts that are going through my head). Wisconsin is obviously a great school. It’s a big ten and has really good academics, but if she wants to get good opportunities there, she’ll have to be at around the 10% of her class. It sucks, but so many talented students attend that it is just the way it goes.
I’d suggest looking at University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign. They have a good engineering program (I think, I’m planning on going pre-med, so I know more about that field), but it is a similar school to Madison. However, I am not sure out of state costs, but they might offer some sort of reciprocity. Also, it is a similar case that she’ll have to be in the top 10% of her class, so that might be a con. Maybe look at MSOE as well? It’s in Milwaukee and is obviously good for engineering. If you’re looking in the Chicago area, I’d suggest DePaul for biology. They have a pathways honors program that partners with the Rosalind Franklin medical school in Chicago. It is a program that not everyone gets into, but if she’s looking at UW-Madison I’d assume she is a good student and would have a good chance of getting into the program! Depaul also offers good scholarships because it is a private school, I am not sure about MSOE.
Overall, it’s basically how much everyone is willing to pay and if she wants to continue her education after her undergraduate studies. Plus, engineering and pre-med (biology/chemistry/biochemistry) are hard majors! I wish you all luck, hopefully this helped!
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Loyola won’t cost that much more and thinking my daughter would probably be eligible for more scholarships there.
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Loyola’s costs will be going up as well. They won’t stay stagnate.
What are your DD’s stats? does she have high ACT or SAT scores? That is what merit will mostly be based on.
How much can you pay each year? If a school costs $60k and she gets a 15k per year merit, can you pay the other $45k per year?
On UW OOS tuition – I believe the OP may be referring to increases which, in part, have already happened. A $6000. increase over two years already took place, and Chancellor Blank has requested an additional; $4000 over the following two years. OOS Tuition for '17-18 is estimated at just under $35,000, so would presumably be around $37,000 for '18-19 if year 1 of the additional increase went through. Room and board is just over an estimated $10k.
For a family who can meet full pay comfortably, $45k can be a bargain for a fantastic university. On the other hand, if an OOS family needs financial aid, they are not going to get it at UW, and merit money is not generous for OOS. If a student wants/needs to bring the cost down through merit awards, there will be schools other than UW which would make better sense.
My advice is, start reading threads on Financial Aid and Scholarships to get a handle on automatic merit awards, EFC, NPCs etc., and focus on finding affordable options. That may include UW or it may not. And I say this as a UW parent who cannot say enough wonderful things about the institution.
I will say, the earlier response suggesting UIUC as an alternative is not well-founded – UIUC is famously expensive for both in state and out of state, and has poor financial aid for OOS students and poor merit awards – as best as I know (someone please correct my info, if it is otherwise). Also, students are admitted directly into specific colleges at Illinois, so a student must choose engineering as an applicant, and engineering admission is extremely competitive. While UW is introducing more direct admits to Engineering and Business, many students are still admitted to the college and major of their choice during freshman and sophomore year at UW, not as applicants, so there is some time to change your mind.
IMHO UW Madison along with UM-TC have priced themselves out of the market for Midwestern publics. Both are good schools, but they aren’t at Michigan’s level while they are trying to charge Michigan prices. They are more on the level of OSU, Indiana and Purdue which are all going to be significantly cheaper moving forward. Plus these three schools and others are much more likely to offer merit aid for top students than UW or MU-TC.
Engineering schools want more women and if your daughter has high stats, they will entice her with $$. OSU, Purdue and MSU give decent merit aid for OOS students, and Michigan has good need based FA for OOS students too. You can also try the midwest tuition exchange which gives near in-state tuition for OOS residents.
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Engineering schools want more women and if your daughter has high stats, they will entice her with $$
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Maybe…maybe not.
It would seem somewhat logical to do so, but often it doesn’t happen. I don’t know if schools are afraid that students will pick that major to get money, then change their minds, lose the money and then have to leave…or what.
What are her stats?
What’s your budget - are you in the 'can pay 45k comfortably but not 70k" category, or in the “can pay 25k, I’ll need financial aid” category or “can pay 25k why is my EFC 40k???” category?
Depending on the answer U Wisconsin is a good idea or not, likely to be the same cost as Loyola or not.
The poster who suggested UIUC is misinformed, whether for costs or major flexibility it’d be a poor choice.
written by zinhead:
“IMHO UW Madison along with UM-TC have priced themselves out of the market for Midwestern publics. Both are good schools, but they aren’t at Michigan’s level while they are trying to charge Michigan prices. They are more on the level of OSU, Indiana and Purdue which are all going to be significantly cheaper moving forward. Plus these three schools and others are much more likely to offer merit aid for top students than UW or MU-TC.”
Zinhead - OOS Cost of attendance - Michigan $59.8K; Wisc $47.5K; MN $36.4; OSU $44.7K, Indiana $34.2K; Purdue $38.8K WI and MN are not charging Michigan prices; OSU is more expensive than MN and Purdue and Indiana are about the same cost. This can obviously change but for now those are the estimated costs.
@wayneandgarth Indiana OOS cost of attendance is $44.3K (not 34.2K) and is a few more thousand per year for Indiana’s Kelley School of Business. All your other OOS appear correct. I believe University of Wisconsin and soon University of Minnesota (which has authorized annual OOS cost increase of about $3,000 for each of the next four years) are placing themselves out of the market for high stat applicants from the northeastern states (New York, New Jersey, Conn & Mass), especially since Wisconsin (I’m not sure about Minnesota) offers hardly any merit aid to OOS students. Ohio State, which offers great merit aid, has taken a lot of talented students from the northeastern states. With Wisconsin’s large increases in OOS costs, it is no longer even a competitive alternative to Michigan for the high stat OOS students from the northeast.
Thank you @trackmbe3, I accidently only cited the OOS tuition cost at Indiana.
Wisconsin and Minnesota are alternatives if you can’t get in to Michigan. High stats no longer are a near sure thing at Michigan where the OOS admissions rate is less than 20% (and lower for Engineering). There is some OOS merit offerings at Minnesota. May not be extensive but the applicant can apply and see.
You won’t really know the relative cost of her alternatives until she has applied, been admitted, and seen her financial packages from private colleges. Depending on what Loyola offers her, it may be a more cost-effective option or not. Merit aid is less plentiful at UW, but the chancellor has lamented that they are “having” to offer more than in the past to attract certain students, and that’s likely to increase with tuition increases if they want to enroll those students. For our children we asked them to apply to at least one in-state alternative which they would actually consider attending as a “financial safety,” and then out-of-state publics were measured against all of their competitive options. One child was offered an in-state tuition waiver at an OOS public (but decided to stay in-state at UW-Madison); one liked Iowa but with little aid it wasn’t competitive. Don’t dismiss that UW has a top biomedical engineering program and that it’s a very attractive place to attend college. After engineering class, you can walk to the library, then walk to Memorial Union and take out a sailboat on Lake Mendota, use the ceramics studio, or listen to a band on the lakeshore. You are looking at a whole package, a place your daughter wants to work and play for 4 years. If there is a dollar figure you cannot go above, let her know that so she can choose holistically among affordable schools, but you won’t know what many of them will cost until her acceptances come back.
At full sticker prices, you could be paying $20K-$25K/year more for Wisconsin (OOS) v. Missouri (in-state). That’s a lot to pay for the OOS experience (especially with med school expenses ahead.)
If your family income is below about $100K/year, with commensurate assets, other private colleges might beat Wisconsin’s OOS prices. Run the online net price calculators for any schools that interest you.
To compare sticker prices, average need-based aid, and average competitive merit scholarships, Kiplinger is a fairly good tool for initially narrowing down the possibilities.
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-public-colleges/index.php
If your income is too high for sufficient need-based aid, and if competitive merit scholarships don’t look promising, then you can also look for big merit scholarships that some schools guarantee for qualifying stats.
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
As the parent of an OOS UW kid who lives in the midwest, it is only anecdotal but the UW tuition increase does not seem to be making a big dent in the east coast kids attending since many of my kid’s friends, from freshman through seniors, are full pay east coast families. For those families, particularly from states which do not have a strong public flagship program, $48k at UW is a still a bargain compared to full pay at privates at $60-65k. Throw in the Terrace, Memorial Union, State Street, Big 10 sports, plus top engineering/humanities and social sciences departments, it can be quite a compelling option for full pay families who are happy to shave $12-15k off the bill a year. And, Walker’s proposed budget includes substantial increase in university funding.
Michigan reports OOS tuition, fees and living expenses between $59,784 and $62,972.
https://finaid.umich.edu/cost-of-attendance/
Wisconsin reports OOS total of $50,514, and is expected to go up to $55,000 within two years.
https://finaid.wisc.edu/undergraduate-cost.htm
UM-TC reports OOS total of $37,646 for 2016. This is expected to increase by $12,800 over four years bringing total cost to $50,446.
Purdue’s OOS cost is $41,999.
https://admissions.purdue.edu/costsandfinaid/tuitionfees.php
Indiana’s University’s OOS cost is $48,666.
https://admissions.indiana.edu/cost-financial-aid/tuition-fees.html
Ohio State OOS cost is $39,895.
http://undergrad.osu.edu/cost-and-aid/basic-costs
Iowa’s OOS cost is $40,205.
https://admissions.uiowa.edu/finances/estimated-costs-attendance
The other factor is that Purdue, Indiana, OSU and Iowa are much more liberal with merit aid. The National Buckeye scholarship at OSU is worth $12,500 a year and the qualification is a 29 ACT and top 25% of the class. It is difficult for an OOS student to get into UW-Madison OOS with a 29 ACT. Once you adjust the above OOS costs for the $12,500+ scholarships available at the other schools, both UW and UM-TC look to be overpriced for OOS students.
I would suggest comparing only tuition plus room and board (and any mandatory fees), as there is significant variation in terms of various schools’ estimates for books, transportation and other costs which are within the control of the student. On that measure, UW is about $48k, Purdue is about $38k, IU is about $45k, and Ohio is just under $40k. Personally, I see UW as closer to Michigan, and comfortably above IU (our home state flagship) for academics, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
re post #5 about Michigan. I do not see where Michigan is that much better than UW. It has more name recognition but Wisconsin certainly can compare in many fields, plus the campus…
Would not be surprised if Rose Hulman and Illinois Inst. of Tech were less than UW OOS. And Bradley, if that helps. 2 of those were perilously close to in-state big 10 for DD, price wise. She didn’t apply to the other.
But Missouri S&T had our attention too, FWIW, even OOS.
If she wants engineering, the Loyola may not be the best choice. They have very limited engineering degrees which apparently are not ABET accredited. For more traditional engineering, they have 3+2 agreements with engineering schools like Illinois Tech.