Is MSc/MEng worth pursuing?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Let me clarify....</p>

<p>YES, you can get admitted to the MBA program without those "7 areas" but you will either have to take those areas as a "provisional admitted student" or the school will jst add those courses to the total needed to graduate. For example, you cannot just start off taking the graduate accounting course in the MBA program. You would have to complete the undergraduate equivalent or some "bridge" course before taking the grad-level accounting course. Either one adds to the total of credits needed. Folks with BS degrees in business will get those courses waived....but engineering undergards won't...unless they completed the courses as electives previously.</p>

<p>A typical MBA program is 51-60 credits with any course being wavied. I elected the MS in Engineering first because it was only 30 credits.</p>

22

<p>Globaltraveller, you really need to be adding the proper caveats to what you are saying, lest you mislead everybody here.</p>

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YES, you can get admitted to the MBA program without those "7 areas" but you will either have to take those areas as a "provisional admitted student" or the school will jst add those courses to the total needed to graduate

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<p>Look, I'll put it to you this way. I am intimately familiar with the MBA curricula of a number of B-schools and I can tell you as a fact that neither HBS nor MITSloan have any such concept as a "provisional admitted student", nor is there any such concept as adding courses to the total you need to graduate. Every HBS student completes the exact same core as every other HBS student, every MITSloan student completes the exact same core as every other MITSloan student. For example, it doesn't matter whether you know nothing about economics or whether you have a PhD in economics, you will still be required to take the requisite HBS or Sloan Econ core class regardless. You can have a BS in bus ad and it doesn't matter a whit.</p>

<p>Now there are other MBA programs such as Stanford, Wharton and Berkeley Haas that do allow you to test out of certain parts of their core. But that doesn't change the total number of units you need to graduate. For every core course you test out of, you are expected to replace it with elective units. Hence. there is no such concept of "adding to the total credits needed". For example, at Wharton, you need a total of 19 units to graduate (where Wharton's definition of 'unit' is admittedly strange, but that's neither here nor there). You can waive certain core coures, but waivers neither change the number of units you need to graduate, nor themselves give you any units. Hence, waivers effectively simply allow you to trade core for electives. </p>

<p>Now I agree that there are some MBA programs, notably Kellogg's, that do allow you to waive courses without need for replacement, or simply waive an entire year. However, this is NOT a general rule. Hence, if you want to talk about schools that offer true waivers, you need to properly identify EXACTLY which B-schools you are talking about. You simply cannot generalize to all B-schools.</p>

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For example, you cannot just start off taking the graduate accounting course in the MBA program.

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<p>Oh really? Funny, because plenty of MBA students do EXACTLY that. For example, I know that the core graduate Accounting courses at both HBS and Sloan's entire Classes of 2007 just had their Accounting final exams about a few weeks ago. Most of them had never taken any undergrad accounting course or a bridge course, yet, strangely enough, they somehow all got placed into a graduate accounting course right from the start. According to you, that's impossible. So perhaps you'd like to tell the HBS and Sloan Classes of 2007 that what they've done is not allowed. While you're at it, you might want to say the same thing to members of the HBS and Sloan Classes of 2006, 2005, and every single other year for at least the past few decades.</p>

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<p>Any of those Sloan students who didn't take the undergrad equivalents MUST have scored a kick-ass GMAT in order to just be a "Classics" major and get into Sloan's program. You just cannot be some high-GPA non-business major and get into Sloan's MBA program unless you have the proper GPA/GMAT qualifications for the program. Even so, the Whartons, Sloans and Kelloggs of the world are going to want some experience too.</p>

<p>If her major was Classics...she must have some good managerial experience, a kick-ass GMAT and a super GPA.</p>

<p>If the major was Business...probably needed only the super GMAT and business GPA.</p>

<p>My point: GPA, GMAT, Business degree and prior experience ALL are factored in. I do not know the weighing of each, but all count.</p>

<p>Now back to the original question. If you think you can go directly into the MBA program with an engineering degree (without business electives)...by all means go for it. I would have but not many MBA programs truly offered a Operations Research/Quantitative Analysis concentration (U of Cinn comes to mind).</p>

<p>Option #2 would be the MS/MBA joint programs. I know someone did that at Univ of Michigan. Problem is that your MS major portion is limited by the school (he had to choose Industrial Engineering).</p>

<p>Option #3 would be Engineering Management...then later on the MBA.</p>

<p>Now I do think the MBA is a better option for the long run.</p>

<p>One more note. I will admit I do not know the minor differences between each B-School. I am speaking from what was told to me by current/former co-workers, friends and associates. Yes, there are MBA programs that have less strict requirements but then we get into that regional vs national accreditation topic which is a different forum.</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
Any of those Sloan students who didn't take the undergrad equivalents MUST have scored a kick-ass GMAT in order to just be a "Classics" major and get into Sloan's program. You just cannot be some high-GPA non-business major and get into Sloan's MBA program unless you have the proper GPA/GMAT qualifications for the program. Even so, the Whartons, Sloans and Kelloggs of the world are going to want some experience too.</p>

<p>If her major was Classics...she must have some good managerial experience, a kick-ass GMAT and a super GPA.</p>

<p>If the major was Business...probably needed only the super GMAT and business GPA.

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<p>It is true that virtually everybody who enters a top-flight MBA program has strong work experience. But that holds for the business majors and the non-business majors. It seems to me that you are asserting that if you majored in business in undergrad, you can simply waltz into a top MBA program with just GPA/GMAT, but without experience. This is false. </p>

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If her major was Classics...she must have some good managerial experience, a kick-ass GMAT and a super GPA.

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</p>

<p>I'm sure it was. I didn't ask. But the point is, at Sloan, once you're admitted, you're all in the same boat. Everybody has to take the exact same core. The EXACT same core. Even if you have a Phd in economics, which a few rare students do, you STILL have to take the Econ for Management class. No if's, and's, or but's, no waivers possible, no nothing. The same is true at HBS - everybody takes the EXACT same core. </p>

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f the major was Business...probably needed only the super GMAT and business GPA.

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<p>Again, see above. I only know of a few people who got into top MBA programs without any work experience. Surprise, they weren't business majors either. </p>

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My point: GPA, GMAT, Business degree and prior experience ALL are factored in. I do not know the weighing of each, but all count.

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<p>I agree that all factors are computed when it comes to admission. But that has nothing to do with what you end up taking once you're in. Again, at some schools, like HBS and Sloan, everybody has to take the exact same core. At other schools, like Wharton, Stanford, Columbia, and Haas, you can waive and replace certain parts of the core, but you cannot reduce the total number of classes you need to graduate. At other schools, like Chicago, there is no core, but everybody has to complete X classes to graduate, with no opportunity to transfer credits or obtain credits through examination or prior experience. And at other schools like Kellogg, certain special rules exist for people who have recent undergrad business degrees. The point is you simply cannot generalize. Of the top 8 business schools, only 1 (Kellogg) possibly allows you to accelerate the MBA via prior knowledge and experience. </p>

<p><a href="http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/students/affairs/mbadegree/exempt.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/students/affairs/mbadegree/exempt.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://chicagogsb.edu/fulltime/admissions/faq.aspx#ap14%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://chicagogsb.edu/fulltime/admissions/faq.aspx#ap14&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/program/curriculum.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/program/curriculum.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/MBA/curriculum_07.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/MBA/curriculum_07.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mbaresource/policies.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mbaresource/policies.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://mitsloan.mit.edu/mba/program/faq.php#curriculum%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mitsloan.mit.edu/mba/program/faq.php#curriculum&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/faq.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/faq.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/admissions/curriculum/core.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/admissions/curriculum/core.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>However, you seem to be absolutely and utterly fixated on the undergrad business degree. I would point out that at many top B-schools, the students with engineering undergrad degrees often times exceeds those with business undergrad degrees. For example, at MITSloan (unsurprisingly), engineers comprise 32% of the incoming class as opposed to business/commerce majors comprising only 18% of the class. Even at Kellogg, the number of engineering/science majors exceed the number of business majors at 40%/23%.</p>

<p><a href="http://mitsloan.mit.edu/mba/program/classof07profile.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mitsloan.mit.edu/mba/program/classof07profile.php&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/admissions/apply/entering.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/admissions/apply/entering.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Now back to the original question. If you think you can go directly into the MBA program with an engineering degree (without business electives)...by all means go for it. I would have but not many MBA programs truly offered a Operations Research/Quantitative Analysis concentration (U of Cinn comes to mind).

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<p>Like I said, plenty of people can and have done exactly that. The #1 criteria you need to enter an MBA program is work experience. If you have strong work experience, then whether you have completed business coursework before just fades away into the background. </p>

<p>As far as offering a OpReserach/Quant concentration, I'm not sure what you mean. Certain MBA programs are famous for their extremely strong OpResearch and quantitative offerings. MITSloan immediately comes to mind, as do Stanford, Wharton, Harvard, and CMU. I think that every single year that USNews ranked the MBA programs by specialty, Sloan was #1 in Ops and Quant every single year the ranking came out. Every single year. {Just like the MIT School of Engineering has been ranked the #1 overall graduate engineering school in every single edition of USNews top graduate programs. Every single edition.} </p>

<p>But of course it's true that Sloan doesn't offer you an actual 'concentration' in Ops Research/Quant. In the old days, as a Sloan MBA student, you could concentrate in a number of things like Finance, Marketing, Ops, and so forth. Sloan got rid of the idea of concentrations. Now everybody just receives a degree without concentration. </p>

<p>But I'm not sure that that really matters. So you don't get a piece of paper that specifically says that you concentrated in Ops. So what? People are going to see that you graduated from MITSloan and they're going to trust that you have extremely strong quant and Ops knowledge. Sloan does have an excellent reputation for producing Ops gurus and quant jocks. </p>

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Option #2 would be the MS/MBA joint programs. I know someone did that at Univ of Michigan. Problem is that your MS major portion is limited by the school (he had to choose Industrial Engineering).

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<p>So don't go into that program. Go into something like MIT's LFM program which has no such restrictions. Randal Pinkett (winner of Donald Trump's Apprentice 4) picked up his Master's in EECS along with his MBA at MIT through LFM (he then stuck around and got his PhD from the MIT Media Lab). </p>

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One more note. I will admit I do not know the minor differences between each B-School. I am speaking from what was told to me by current/former co-workers, friends and associates. Yes, there are MBA programs that have less strict requirements but then we get into that regional vs national accreditation topic which is a different forum.

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<p>First off, I would say that these are not "minor" differences. All top B-schools place a premium on strong leadership and work experience. That's why all of them have incoming classes whose median age is about 27-29. </p>

<p>Nor is it about 'less strict' requirements. The truth is, course requirements don't matter very much when it comes to B-school. Practically nobody flunks out. Many schools, notably Stanford, Harvard, and Wharton, institute grade nondisclosure, where your grades will neve be disclosed to anybody except you, and employers are not allowed to ask about your grades, and you are not allowed to tell them your grades (under pain of not being allowed to use the school's Career Services office). The truth is, B-schools are basically 2-year networking and social clubs. Courses are actually somewhat secondary in importance. </p>

<p>Nor does it have anything to do with accreditation. Pop quiz. What's MITSloan's accreditation? I couldn't tell you. I don't know, and I don't care. What's HBS's accreditation? Again, don't know and don't care. Nobody does. What is important is the reputation of the school and how well it brings together employers and students, not whether it's accredited. HBS could lose all its accreditation (if it ever had any in the first place), and we both know that employers and students would still flock to it.</p>