Hello! I’m a senior, and all my apps are out already, but I’m super worried about my lowish GPA (3.7UW/4.1W). I go to a competitive high school, and while I’m not a diploma candidate, I’m taking 6 IB classes, and I’m going to have about a 4.6 weighted GPA for this semester. I applied to a lot of small liberal arts colleges (Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wesleyan, Hamilton, Vassar, Macalester, and Williams, where both my parents went). I think the rest of my application is at least decent- I got a 34 on the ACT, my extracurriculars are generic but show dedication, and my essays are at least unique and relatively well-written. How much is my GPA going to be a hurdle getting in??
(note: I applied to some safeties too, because I knew I’d need them)
Don’t be too worried, as there has been people from my school with that GPA who got into Brown and Hamilton. Plus, you being a double legacy may help you. Good luck!
Most of these schools, except Macalester, are reaches even with a 34 ACT, - which means as a non-hooked applicant your chance of acceptance is the same as the RD % as a 34, while a great score, is only near or at the top-25%. But not above. Also, all but Macalester will have sub-20% RD acceptance rates this year.
Have been told by Williams alum with kids that have recently applied, that the adcoms make it clear that legacy isn’t much of a hook, if any.
I would not worry! I think that you have a very good shot at getting into many if not all of the above schools with your 34. A 3.7 UW GPA at a competitive school is just fine. Colleges know high schools’ reputations. I am an AP teacher at a highly rated private high school (22 years) so I feel like I have a pretty good hold on acceptances/ rejections. I would tell you that Ivies are a reach, but only because they are for most. As you probably know, Vassar will most likely be easier if you are a male. That said, if you don’t get into Vassar (regardless of your sex), I am sure that it is because admissions think that as a double legacy, you’ll be choosing Williams. They will want to protect their yield. (I mean no disrespect to Vassar; my son is there and he loves it as do I). Truthfully, I would be SHOCKED if you did not get into Williams as a legacy- and you’re a double legacy! I have never seen a good student (which you are) not get into their parent’s school; I literally mean never. Truthfully your 34 puts you near the top; no school likes to disappoint those alumni, although I am sure that admissions spin this to alumni however they see fit. Now, if you were an average or below average legacy, that might be a different story. I have noticed that sometimes kids with perfect scores do have trouble with highly selective LACs because a lot of LACs do like to protect yield, which is why it is always a good idea to cast your net wide and show interest if the interest is genuine. A lot of my students who get into HYPS get waitlisted or rejected from top 20 LACs. Congratulations on your good grades and good scores. I am sure that it will pay off. You will have some great choices!
I should probably add that as a parent I, too, have fallen for admissions spin; we hear what we want to hear. We all like hearing that our kids are going to highly selective schools. If you read one of my earlier posts, you will see that I was nervous about my son getting into Vassar based on a few Bs he received his junior year. A few months have passed now and I can be more objective. He had a 1480, 13 APs, a coach’s support, a Y chromosome, and he applied EARLY; of course he was going to be accepted! I was flattered to think it harder to get into than it was which is stupid because A) it is a fabulous school and my son is so happy and B) it is all him - it has nothing to do with me! So, just my two cents worth.
@sizkids, Williams applicants with median ACT/SAT scores (Class of 2021 median ACT was 33 and SAT was 1500 - https://provost.williams.edu/files/williams_cds_1718.pdf) and are legacies of donor parents are definitely denied today. I know several and the alumni parents were specifically reminded by the AO after their kid’s denials that Williams doesn’t treat legacy differently. I also know 34-35 ACT/1500-1550 SAT Princeton legacies that were denied.
Furthermore, we know from Amherst, Brown and Hamilton publish score distribution data that;
We also know the student accepted median ACT was 33+ at Amherst, 33 at Bowdoin, Hamilton, Vassar and Wesleyan, and slightly lower at Middlebury.
At Vassar, a 1480 is slightly above the median accepted SAT, so I agree that being a male helped, having coach’s support helped, but I don’t think it was a shoe-in.
Regarding acceptances into Amherst vs HYPS, the admitted student score profiles are almost identical, so it’s about how the school views fit.
Princeton - median ACT of 33, SAT of 1500 per CDS (2016-2017) https://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/CDS_2016-2017.pdf
Amherst - median ACT of 33, SAT of ~1500 per CDS (2017-2018)
OP, Rooting for you to get into one of these highly selective schools, but I would be very, very surprised if you got accepted to most of them.
@illiteratemoron, BTW, our DD’s who are thrilled to be in Hamilton’s Class of 2021 (with attending score student profiles of bottom-25% ACT 31 / SAT 1360 and top-25% ACT 33/ SAT 1510). They both had a similar academic profile to you - 35 ACT, multiple 750-800 SAT 2’s, 3.8 UW GPA / 4.2 W GPA with 6-8 AP’s each, good EC’s and were;
unfortunately;
1 was Deferred/ Denied at Brown
1 was Deferred / Denied at Bowdoin
Both were Denied at Cornell, Dartmouth and Williams
1 was Denied at Amherst
Both were WL at Middlebury
1 was WL at Wesleyan
And the great news - Both were Accepted at Bates, Carleton, Colgate, Colby, Hamilton, Kenyon and Oberlin!
@Chembiodad Yeah, I’m honestly hoping to get into one or two of these schools, tops. I think because a lot of the elite small liberal arts colleges are moving towards more holistic admissions processes, it really does feel a little random. Thanks so much for the feedback!
@illiteratemoron, you are very welcome. Our DD’s definitely had some ups and downs through the acceptance process, as like you they worked really hard to be admitted to a highly selective LAC - and they were!
It definitely felt random to them as they were both accepted at Carleton, but one was waitlisted at Wesleyan.
Also, the holistic aspect, which definitely includes URM and First Gen, is becoming more and more important since all of the students applying to these highly selective school have great stats. As a result, the % of acceptances of URM and First-Gen is increasing, which is great as many haven’t had the chance to learn about what a LAC could offer - now they are!
That said, our DD’s are both really, really happy at Hamilton College with its really smart and caring students, and really supportive professors! One is a Gov major and Varsity student-athlete; the other a STEM major and Outing Club trip leader - life on the Hill is great!
It is hard to evaluate your gpa without context of your school. While it looks low for the schools on your list, if your high school is very well regarded, and isn’t perceived to have grade inflation, and if you are in the top 10-15% of your class, it could be fine. While legacy at Williams is a boost, I disagree with the poster who said they never see good students get rejected from their parents school. Williams is not known to be super friendly to legacies, and you didn’t apply there ED, which would have helped more. In fact I know 2 girls, who were legacy at Williams, both denied, ended up at Hamilton, so you know they had to have had good stats/be strong students. On the other hand, there is a poster here TheGreyking, whose son got into Williams ED as a legacy this year. You may want to look at those posts. I think Bowdoin and Midd are going to be very tough for you in the RD round. Think you have a chance for some of the others though. Good luck!
Agree with @wisteria100 as our DD’s have classmates at Hamilton that we Deferred/Denied at Williams and Bowdoin. They also know at least one recruited student-athlete that chose Hamilton over Williams because of fit, and several others that chose Hamilton over Middlebury for the same reason - I am sure Vassar and Wesleyan attendance decisions are the same as fit matters so much.
All of these highly selective schools are great, all are tough to be accepted at. At he end of day, if you are accepted to more than one, the attendance decision will likely be based on best fit.
@wisteria100 that’s the problem- I don’t think my high school really has a reputation with the small liberal arts colleges, we have maybe 1 or 2 students apply to each of them every year. The highest possible GPA you can get is about a 4.4/4.5, because they don’t let you start taking weighted classes until junior year. I’m just hoping to have an option at this point.
@illiteratemoron I don’t think it matters that not a lot of kids from your school apply to LACS, it only matters how the LACS perceive your high school. My point, was that if it was perceived as highly rigorous, the gpa may not be as much of an issue as you perceive. If it is not, it will play a bigger factor. Generally at selective schools, gpa and course rigor are the most important component of the application. And context is important too - so if your rank is high, the fact that a 3.7 ‘seems’ low, won’t matter as much
@illiteratemoron, not familiar with UMW - what does that stand for? I do know that lots of students love Vermont as it’s a university that feels like an LAC, and the city of Burlington is great. Wishing you nothing but the best over the next two months!