Is name-brand worth 40k extra debt?

College Search & Selection
21

Williams is wealthier (after adjustment for its smaller size), and can afford to offer better financial aid.

2015 endowment per student:
$ 1,141,000 Williams
$ 335,000 Brown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment

2015-16 average net price:
$ 18,167 Williams
$ 25,264 Brown
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=williams+college&s=all&id=168342
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=brown+university&s=all&id=217156

The average net price for Williams is lower than the average net price for Brown in every one of the five income categories tracked by College Navigator.

22

@Corbett Williams may well have better financial aid overall. But if two schools both ask for a zero parent contribution and zero loans, they will probably cost relatively similar amounts. Unless, as I said, there are some assets the two schools treat differently, but that would have to be a lot to make a $10,000 difference.

23

Even before my son was accepted to Williams, one of the music faculty contacted him inviting him to a summer music workshop in Europe. I was impressed by the personal touch. After the official acceptance, my son was contacted via his personal email by a current student, a parent of another current student, a faculty from bio dept and another faculty from music dept, and an administrator, all with warmest and most welcoming greetings. They really made me feel assured that he’d be well taken care of once he’s there and academically succeed and socially belonged. Their FA offer, while it was better than some other offers but not the best, was still impressive in that the FA offer letter indicated that they had not only read our additional note about our unusual and atypical financial situation but addressed it to my full satisfaction. Williams really sold me with such personal touches and attention to details. Although my son ended up committing to another school, I’d have been most pleased if he had chosen Williams.

As for Brown, sure it’s an Ivy school, but it’s more known as a top choice for celebrities and the children of politicians and the wealthy. About two decades ago, when a wealthy acquaintance of mine proudly announcing to me that his son is attending Brown, I remember shrugging and thinking, “why would you want to spend so much money sending your kid there?” My reaction, honestly, would have been very different if it was Harvard, Yale or Princeton.

24

This is exactly why I posted this thread? So I can make an informed decision and apply early decision so that slim odds become slightly greater.

I will try calling Brown’s financial aid office. Thank you for the advice! @Wilson98 @momrath

25

If anything, Brown should have more financial resources than Williams.

26

In the “Endowment per Student for 2018,” Williams is currently ranked 11th while Brown is ranked 54th.

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent

27

If you want the ability to compare financial offers between schools perhaps ED isn’t the best option.

28

The latest NACUBO endowment numbers, for the academic year ending June 2016, are:

$ 2.96 billion Brown
$ 2.26 billion Williams

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/EndowmentFiles/2016-Endowment-Market-Values.pdf

So literally, yes, Brown does have more financial resources. But at Brown, those resources have to support 9,380 students, while at Williams they only support 2,134. On a per-student basis, Williams is much more financially comfortable.

And that statistic may understate the difference, because Brown’s students cost more to support. Brown has to cover costs for medical students, engineering students, PhD science students, and Division I athletes. In contrast, Williams only needs to fund bachelor’s-level study of arts and sciences and DIII athletics. So Williams has more money to throw at less expensive students.

In terms of financial resources behind each student, the top liberal arts colleges (including Williams) play in the same ballpark as HYPSM.

29

Agreed that the people who haven’t heard of Williams might not know Brown is in the Ivy league.

30

You have two threads that are the same.


[QUOTE=""]
My dad keeps on saying $40k of debt after graduating Brown is worth the "ivy league" brand (ugh. I know.) because people will look up to me if I say I went to an Ivy League school + I

[/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous for a few reasons.

If you’re a doctor, no one is going to care where you went to undergrad. If anything, they may ask where you went to med school, but probably not even that… if people are going to be impressed, they’ll be impressed that you’re a DOCTOR.

Also, you won’t be saying, “i went to an Ivy League school,” unless you want people to think you’re a tool. If anything, you’d say, “i went to Brown for undergrad,” and frankly, a bunch of people won’t even know what Brown is, much less know that it’s a Ivy League school. More likely, the people who know about brown will also know about Williams, but again, once you’re a doctor, there will be little discussion/mention of where you went to undergrad…why would there be. That’s like being in college and people being impressed with where you went to middle school.

And since you’d be taking on a bunch of debt for med school, it’s silly to be taking on debt for undergrad.

And, since your low income parents would likely not qualify to cosign that debt, you couldn’t borrow it anyway. You can only borrow 5500 as a frosh. Your parents would have to qualify and cosign for the rest.

31

<<<<<<

His point is that if people don’t know what Brown is, I can say it’s an Ivy League school and that will apparently impress people.

He says that if I do end up starting my own practice, being from Brown will be advantageous for that reason.

<<<

Again, more silliness. Once you’re a doctor or even in med school, where you went to undergrad will soooo very rarely ever come up. With all the doctors we’ve seen over the past 5 decades, I can say that I only know of where 1 went to undergrad and that’s because we know him personally.

As for setting up your own practice…again, how would being from Brown be more advantageous? How would they know or care? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a doctor’s undergrad diploma in his office. I’ve seen med school diplomas, residency certifications, and fellowship certifications.

Your dad is really stretching…when someone goes to a doctor, why would where they went to undergrad matter at all? Nothing “medical” is taught in college. And when people pick or are referred to a doctor, how would they know where you went to undergrad. Training listed would include med school name, residency program name and fellowship program name. Undergrad name isn’t a part of that.<<<<<<

His point is that if people don’t know what Brown is, I can say it’s an Ivy League school and that will apparently impress people.

He says that if I do end up starting my own practice, being from Brown will be advantageous for that reason.

<<<

Again, more silliness. Once you’re a doctor or even in med school, where you went to undergrad will soooo very rarely ever come up. With all the doctors we’ve seen over the past 5 decades, I can say that I only know of where 1 went to undergrad and that’s because we know him personally.

As for setting up your own practice…again, how would being from Brown be more advantageous? How would they know or care? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a doctor’s undergrad diploma in his office. I’ve seen med school diplomas, residency certifications, and fellowship certifications.

Your dad is really stretching…when someone goes to a doctor, why would where they went to undergrad matter at all? Nothing “medical” is taught in college. And when people pick or are referred to a doctor, how would they know where you went to undergrad. Training listed would include med school name, residency program name and fellowship program name. Undergrad name isn’t a part of that.

32

Why would you assume that? Because one is an Ivy League university and one is a LAC? As TiggerDad pointed out, it is not true on a per student basis. There are lots of excellent well-funded LACs with more $ per student than most universities.

33

“There are lots of excellent well-funded LACs with more $ per student than most universities.”

Assuming that the funding for the LACs came from generous alumni, this says a lot about how well alumni from some very good small schools have done over the years.

34

That’s part of it. Another part is that LAC alumni are more likely to give back to their schools.

Average alumni giving rates, from 2017 USNWR:

35% Brown. That’s pretty good, by top university standards.

56% Williams. That’s untouchable by top university standards, with the sole exception of Princeton.

35

Re: #33

If the OP does go to medical school, it is unlikely that s/he will be doing much or any giving to his/her undergraduate school, since s/he will be paying off medical school debt for decades.

36

Not sure why some posters aren’t pointing out an important alternative: Brown’s PLME program. I think it would be well worth it.

https://www.brown.edu/academics/medical/plme/

37

Yeah, I think your dad’s off-base. OP, I’m about 10 years post college graduation, and let me tell you that I do not care that sometimes people don’t recognize my college when I tell people. All of the people who have mattered - employers and graduate school admissions committees - have been familiar with my college and respect its quality and reputation. I have a PhD, I only mention where I went to undergrad in casual conversation/small talk and if the person has not heard of it it’s simply an opportunity to educate them briefly and we move on.

You won’t care. However, what you WILL care about is an extra $460 in your pocket over 10 years. $40K in debt at 6.8% over 10 years is about $460/month. $460 a month is more than my car note and insurance combined; more than all of my utilities and cable combined. You can do a lot with an extra nearly $500 a month! Especially if you are adding that to already hefty medical school debt.

Also, let me disabuse of the notion that grown people care about the “Ivy League” brand…if you go around telling people that you went to an Ivy League school and expect to get treated with more respect in society, people will think you are an insufferable, annoying person. Especially if you end up anywhere outside of the Northeast. Once you have your first job or two (and especially after you have an MD), really nobody talks about or cares where people went to college anymore outside of sharing silly stories and getting nostalgic about our youth, lol. The Ivy League is just an athletic conference, and most college-educated people are aware that there are more really great schools in the nation than just the 8 Ivy League universities (and quite frankly, might hold some of them in higher esteem than some of the Ivies).

If you are going to pick an ED school that you are committing to this early in the process, you should pick the one that you think you’ll be the happiest at. As someone pointed out, Williams (a small liberal arts college in a small town in a rural area) is going to provide a really different experience than Brown (a medium-sized research university in a medium-to-large city). I’m not particularly surprised that a student would consider both, but you do need to think about what experience appeals to you more.

38

Not worth the extra money, but your call.

39

You don’t need an Ivy education to go to medical school. I went to a public university and got in.

40

Brown and Williams are equals from a prestige standpoint. People who do not know Williams likely think of UPS when you say “Brown”.