<p>Here's a hypothetical for current Notre Dame students. Assume you have a close friend who is not religious. Your friend isn't intolerant of religion, but she is a secularist not completely comfortable with organized religion of any kind. Further assume that your friend knows Notre Dame is a great school but is nevertheless concerned she might feel out of place there as a non-Catholic who is not religious. If your friend asked whether she should apply to Notre Dame next fall, what would you candidly tell her?</p>
<p>Thanks for your help!</p>
<p>Not a current student, but a parent of two current students and a member of the ND community. What sets Notre Dame apart from the other schools in its peer group is its Catholic identity. Of course, all students are welcome, and some 15% of the student body is non-Catholic (with a non-trivial number of the Catholic students only marginally so), but a person who is “not completely comfortable with organized religion of any kind” would be well-advised to think carefully about applying to Notre Dame. There are dorms in every chapel. All major campus events – orientation, Junior Parent Weekend, graduation – include a huge Mass with thousands of participants. All home football games are followed by multiple Masses all over campus. There are crucifixes in every classroom, and all students are required to take two theology courses (although not every theology course is focused on Catholicism or Christianity). Etc. Will she feel “out of place?” That depends upon her. No one will pressure her to accept the Catholic faith or to attend Mass, but if her “discomfort” with organized religion is a major part of her makeup, she would probably be happier at another school.</p>
<p>In our family–the balance of “knowing it’s a great school” outweighed my sons concern for being a non-catholic in the atmosphere the above poster described. They hit it on the head–one would have to be somewhat comfortable being in the presence of religious symbols, etc… my son also attended a catholic HS because he truly believed (and chose the school for himself) that it was a superb education so he was quite used to that sort of surrounding.</p>
<p>Take comfort that ND invited Obama in 2009 to be the commencement speaker. This despite his support of homosexuality and right to kill through birth control and abortion. Obama recently said FU to the Catholics by now trying to force religious institutions to pay for birth control despite their religious objections. This is after Obama told the US Bishops that he wouldn’t do so.</p>
<p>The 2012 commencement speaker is a Dr. Thomas Quinn who promotes the use of condoms world-wide against church teaching and having him as speaker goes against the directions of the US Bishops in that ND is honoring someone in violation of church teaching.</p>
<p>In short, ND is less than exemplary as a Catholic institution and even rebels against the church that Christ founded.</p>
<p>In our case, I think our non-Catholic alum child tried to look at the education aspect first. The religious aspect was very secondary. And while ND does require theology courses, our child looked at them as an educational experience. Never had an issue with being a non-Catholic…and a priest lived 4 doors away. Never invited or pressured into attending Mass.</p>
<p>Gobluu,</p>
<p>I suppose you have been on campus to witness the heated reaction against the HHS mandate? </p>
<p>Debates over what speakers Notre Dame may or may not invite aside, Notre Dame is heavily grounded in Catholic character, as it should be. There are a host of academic programs that allow students to engage in Catholicism’s impact on various subjects, but one can certainly choose how much these opportunities are part of their Notre Dame education. Perhaps most notable is Notre Dame’s Catholic Social Teaching minor. It takes a very naive person to say that Notre Dame rebels against the Church’s teaching. </p>
<p>Also, your post is insulting and off the topic of this thread. Milton is asking whether the Catholic identity of the school would make a secular student uncomfortable, I highly doubt that his friend would ‘take comfort’ that Notre Dame invited someone who disagrees with Catholic teaching. He is looking for an honest review of the overall Notre Dame spiritual experience and how it relates to non-Catholic students feeling at home at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>It would be appreciated if you would only post comments that are directed at the question being asked.</p>
<p>“Take Comfort” is the message coming from NDs leadership. “we’re not as catholic as you may think we are”. We selectively follow the teaching of the church and certainly not the instructions from the US bishops. Clearly, ND is rebelling against the church in this area. It is ill-informed to think otherwise. </p>
<p>Below is an excerpt from the US Council of Catholic Bishops.</p>
<p>“The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”</p>
<p>If I were not Catholic and considering ND their current actions with commencement speakers would make me more comfortable in attending. This is particularly true for agnostics, some fundamentalists and aethiests. Perhaps this is why NDs leadership is acting this way, to make the university more appealing to non-Catholics.</p>
<p>As if people base their college decisions off of commencement speakers. When ND invited the President to speak, it was prefaced with a speech by Judge John T. Noonan, who made very pointed remarks about how a leaders conscience can change. Take a look at his speech, I think you would be able to see what the University hoped to accomplish by inviting the President. Additionally, the Vatican remained silent on the matter. You may think a mistake was made, but there is hardly grounds to believe Notre Dame is trying to lose its Catholic character based on inviting commencement speakers. I see that you ignored my point about the way Notre Dame allows Catholicism to be integrated into one’s academic goals. Notre Dame has a chapel in every dorm and offers countless opportunities to become engaged in Catholicism. ND’s tradition of parietals and current fight against the HHS mandate seem to signal that the Catholic character is fairly intact. The Alliance for Catholic Education is also headquartered at Notre Dame. </p>
<p>The commencement speakers are by no means a black and white issue, but Notre Dame remains a premier Catholic institution in a host of other ways.</p>
<p>I suppose one could see Notre Dame’s co</p>
<p>Here’s what a couple of leading Catholics said about ND inviting Obama. I could quote many more but won’t:</p>
<p>Head of the US Bishops (Francis George): “Whatever else is clear, it’s clear Notre Dame didn’t understand what it means to be Catholic when they issued this invitation,”</p>
<p>Cardinal James Francis Stafford, one of the highest-ranking Americans at the Vatican, declared Obama an unfit honoree because his statements on abortion reflect “an agenda and vision that are aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic.” (so the Vatican did speak out through Cardinal Stafford).</p>
<p>Per my earlier post, the US Bishops have given clear guidelines on who should not be honored. So from a moral perspective, “black and white” can be seen clearly on who should be giving commencement addresses and who should not.</p>
<p>Is this thread about commencement speakers or non-religious students attending ND?</p>
<p>Sounds to me like someone has concerns about a commencement speaker. I would hope that no one would choose to attend a university based on commencement speakers! Goodness, the University of Alabama has not had a commencement speaker in 4 years because that last speaker was booed off the stage because of remarks made about the Iraq war!</p>
<p>Make up your minds about the thread!!</p>
<p>What Claremarie said was spot-on! I don’t think Gobluu has any idea what life at ND is really like or what this thread is about…</p>
<p>Also, there are a bunch of other threads that have touched upon the topic of non-religious students at ND as well if you search the forum for them.</p>
<p>Personally, I am a non-religious student that applied and was accepted to Notre Dame, so hopefully I can offer some perspective on the issue. I went to visit the campus a few weeks ago. Religion is definitely very present on the campus from the Basilica to the Golden Dome to the Touchdown Jesus and crucifixes in all the classrooms, so you want to think about how comfortable you are with that. I was okay with that because really the whole place is beautiful. It does seem like religion is very present among the students though - I headed down to the Grotto and found at least 10 students there praying even on a Thursday night. Masses occur all over the campus. To me, it also seemed that people here were much more open with discussing their religious beliefs because they know that they are on a religious campus. That’s not bad I think but you just have to be ready for that kind of discussion. I went with a group of other students and the topic of religion came up a few times - certainly more than it would come up at another college, in my own opinion.</p>
<p>I appreciate the helpful comments to my original post. Based upon those comments, do I err in concluding the following:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Religion and religious practice are woven into the larger tapestry of student life at Notre Dame.</p></li>
<li><p>Secular students are free to respectfully opt out of religious observances and are not ostracized or proselytized by their peers or professors for doing so.</p></li>
<li><p>In order to enjoy the considerable benefits a Notre Dame education offers, a secular student should be comfortable with the presence of religion on campus.</p></li>
<li><p>A campus visit while school is in session is especially advisable for a secular student.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>^^Yes, I believe that those are very appropriate conclusions.</p>
<p>The university’s Catholic identity is noticeable. From a secular persective, it has negatives, such as the Administration’s repeated refusal to place sexual orientation in the university’s non-discrimination clause or recognize a gay-straight alliance, despite large shows of student and faculty support. It also has positives, such as the university’s claim to be committed to social justice and producing individuals who will better the world.</p>
<p>If you are uncomfortable around religion, I wouldn’t recommend Notre Dame, simply because there are other good universities you could attend without having this problem. Notre Dame may not only be for the religious, but it is only for those who are comfortable around religion. As someone who has changed his view of religion over the past year, I can sympathize with various viewpoints and understand how individuals of varying religiousness would view life on campus.</p>
<p>
As they do with literally every President in their first year of office, as per university policy.</p>
<p>
As George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush, and Ronald Reagan were all welcomed as speakers despite views on war, torture, the death penalty, and cutting social programs for the poor that have been condemned by the Catholic Church. For whatever reason, the university is particularly patriotic, and this includes welcoming every President.</p>
<p>
Yes, I’m sure his reason was to say “FU” and nothing to do with views of medical care or whatnot.</p>
<p>
Yes, religious discussions are very commonplace. There is also a bit of a spectrum, from those jokingly called “religious extremists” to the devout to the nominally religious to cultural Catholics to questioners to atheists, and most people seem pretty comfortable discussing their views, though I have met a few on the ends of the spectrum (significantly more ultra-religious people, given the school’s demographics) that aren’t particularly tolerant of others’ views.</p>