<p>I've heard that the catholic tradition has died down since the whole obama thing. So is ND losing catholic spirit?</p>
<p>Edit: father john jenkins. i thought he was asked to step down?</p>
<p>Who are you referring to???</p>
<p>I am guessing you are referring to Fr. John Jenkins who is still ND’s president. He is known for stirring up controversy but he is very good at promoting healthy dialogue. Many people hold that some of his stances are at odds with ND’s Catholic identity (the monologues, the commencement speech, etc. for example). Whether they are or are not is really up for question. </p>
<p>As far as liturgies, campus ministry, and social concerns are concerned, I believe ND is especially strong and only growing in spirit. But I also believe we are seeing a change of sorts. I think we are seeing a shift where the emphasis is being moved from the doctrinal and placed primarily on pastoral aspects of the faith. I believe Fr. Jenkins has in some part helped to align ND with the pastoral lens of the Church at the expense of the doctrinal lens. I think the university would be strongest if it struck a balance between the two.</p>
<p>So ND’s Catholic spirit is still there. It just looks different and feels different as well. I know the terms conservative and liberal do not always work well in theological discussions, but if I had to say, I would say ND is becoming increasingly theologically liberal.</p>
<p>I’d say that’s probably a fair assessment. However, keep in mind that this is a gradual change. It certainly isn’t as if, after Obama came, the entire Notre Dame community was like “oh, well screw it, that’s enough of that whole Catholic thing.” </p>
<p>I think Obama speaking at ND was more of a manifestation of the changes that have been occurring rather than the cause. And I suppose it has caused a few people to distance themselves from ND, but no commencement speaker could ever cause Notre Dame’s Catholic spirit to die down or shatter one of our traditions.</p>
<p>And yes, Fr. Jenkins was asked to step down (by people like Charles Rice and Randall Terry), but he didn’t.</p>
<p>well, i’ll go on record as being one of the disappointed students who felt ND lost a little something when obama came. i think the fact that he was so happily invited by most of the notre dame community shows that ND has lost its catholic image a little bit. it’s still “more catholic” than most of the comparable “catholic” universities out there, though</p>
<p>I think ND ceased being Catholic the day it admitted a non-Catholic student.</p>
<p>…lol is that a joke? its illegal to discriminate.</p>
<p>I hate any thought that is somewhat non-Catholic, that’s what’s supposed to be taught at Notre Dame I’ve heard.</p>
<p>what college are you attending?</p>
<p>Careful Citric Acid–we have a non-Catholic student that will be a Senior this fall. All I will say is that I thought that Catholics/religion in general was more welcoming of all faiths…are Catholics not at all concerned about garnering more people to become Catholic? I hope that I am misinterpreting your above posts and that you do not sincerely think that Catholicism/and Notre Dame for that matter is so closed and clanish that they do not accept people of other faiths!</p>
<p>well let me clarify my comment. i am certainly accepting of other faiths being at ND, but i felt like when Obama came, Jenkins (as well as many students), tried to justify that Obama’s views are very Catholic, and i certainly don’t agree with that. Some even tried to justify that his 100% NARAL rating was a catholic view, which it most certainly is not. so, while i am accepting of other faiths, i am not accepting of trying to pass off Obama’s views as Catholic in the slightest.</p>
<p>Not wanting to debate the issue of Obama–everyone has strong personal opinions about his appearance. I do, however, find it shocking that someone might allude to the fact that “ND ceased being Catholic the day it admitted a non-Catholic student”. Personally, this indicates to me that Catholics are not accepting of other faiths. We live in a world that contains quite a diverse group of religions. And, in order to survive and progress, one certainly needs the exposure to other faiths. Not to mention that I would imagine that the Catholic church could certainly benefit from more members each and every day! </p>
<p>I truly hope that I am misinterpreting the above post by CitricAcid…and that indeed the general population at Notre Dame (esp being overwhelmingly Catholic) are not as closed-minded as the statement leads one to believe.</p>
<p>Oh just take Citric Acid with a grain of salt. True to his moniker he is often gratuitosly acerbic! My husband entered ND as a Lutheran 30 years ago and was accepted by an even more homogeneous student body. (Though I must add that he has since “come home!”)
Of all the things that would keep one from ND, fear of not being accepted because of religion shouldn’t even be on the radar! Now if you were reluctant because of the weather…</p>
<p>Thanks laketime! Have been quite proud of our student for surviving those brutal Jan-Feb months when the sun (according to student) never shines!! And, amazingly, as student is in a SW state for an internship, where temps have been in the 100 degree range, student has actually indicated that the cold weather will “feel good” again!!!</p>
<p>ND AL Ah I do understand! Our DS has been born and bred on the tip of the FL *****ula.
He thinks the winters will be temperate compared to the FL summers! Chicago born and New England bred myself, I just nod.</p>
<p>OOPS! Dropped an “N” our son was raised on the Florida peniNsula!</p>
<p>These are very interesting times at Notre Dame. The mainstream media coverage of the Obama debacle didn’t do justice to the controversy – for example, there was virtually no coverage of the outdoor Mass celebrated on campus several hours before the graduation ceremony, which attracted more than 1500 people. But notwithstanding the Obama distraction, Fr. Jenkins is very serious about retaining and strengthening the Catholic identity of the University (without the support of the Faculty Senate, which opposes his efforts to increase the hiring of Catholic faculty). There are some superb young priests among the CSC, including the priest who celebrated the outdoor Mass on the day of graduation. In some cases, the students are leading the way in restoring more “traditional” Catholic devotions, such as Eucharistic adoration at the Basilica every Friday afternoon during the academic year. In contrast to places such as Georgetown, campus masses (and there are more than 150 every week) are well-attended, and there are lines outside the confessional every day during the regularly scheduled confession times. If anything, the Obama decision has served to inspire many in the ND community to intensify their devotion and commitment to the university’s Catholic identity.<br>
Which is not to say that non-Catholic students will feel shunned and out of place, but anyone who spends even a brief period of time on campus understands that Notre Dame is “still Catholic.”</p>
<p>Oh, we still understand that ND is still Catholic… that has been very evident for the past three years that our student has been in attendance. I do think that the appearance of Obama has helped many to re-examine their beliefs and not just from a religious standpoint. We have never felt that ND’s Catholic identity has been slipping, but maybe we just don’t know any better given that we are non-Catholic. And, we understood this before anyone signed on the dotted line! There is however, a fine line to walk when it comes to exclusiveness. Fortunately, for our student, I don’t think that issue has ever been an issue–we all appreciate the excellent academics, spirituality and general sense of community that ND has offered these last few years. No regrets from day 1!</p>
<p>It was interesting to see how most of the criticism came either from alums who had graduated a very long time ago or from people with absolutely no association to the University (Randall Terry, anyone?). I think that anyone who maintains a close relationship with ND understands that the day-in and day-out Catholic character of the university can hardly be called into question based solely upon the proceedings of one commencement ceremony. I was almost embarrassed for the alums who wrote in to the Observer; clearly they didn’t understand how deeply the Catholic character and mission has become intertwined with our activities and pursuits as a student body. You would be hard-pressed to find a group of students more passionate about serving their fellow man and woman. It’s tremendously unfair to judge the university’s Catholic character based on the beliefs and ideals of somebody not associated with the school while completely ignoring those of the most important, ACTUAL members of the university: its students. We were the ones there on campus for four years. Obama was there for a day. If inviting and honoring Obama was a mistake, then it was a mistake that will be drowned out by the constant stream of amazing, Catholic-minded things our student body does. I think the alums who made statements about never donating again and being ashamed of their ND degrees had entirely forgotten their time at ND and what truly made it so great. If they had remembered, I think they would have realized that there’s a certain indelible Catholic spirit to the place that really can’t be tarnished by any one event, speaker, or honorary degree.</p>
<p>Another thing that horrified me was that everyone was so fixated on Obama and how he allegedly destroyed our Catholic character that they COMPLETELY ignored how our valedictorian Brennan Bollman gave the best speech of the day. It was a far cry better than Obama’s. And guess what? It TRULY was a prime example of how we students have not forgotten our school’s mission. Forget Obama. Listen to what the students have to say if you want to know what our school is like these days.</p>
<p>As a Catholic, I too feel strongly that everyone WAY overreacted to Obama. For the most part, he is a president that I as a Catholic feel proud to support, though his and my beliefs on certain key issues differ, by no means should it be considered “un-Catholic” to allow him to speak at the school.</p>